Managing two long-guns on-person at the same time

[runcible]

What's the current preferred way for you/your-org to manage having two long-guns on your person at the same time?

Background: necklace carry of the AR or subgun is the default at my employer.

Context: carrying an AR or subgun for warrant service tasks/duties, to include jump-outs, while simultaneously carrying a PLS or 12ga/40mm launcher system for introducing chemical or specialty impact munitions as-required. Launchers may be single-shot or multi-shot; emphasis in the ask is on single-shot launchers.

My magnificently stale military service had a few options for carrying an additional long-gun to/during the fight. Few were widespread or overly loved. Those included:

Diamondback Tactical/BattleLabs made Weapons Catch, which was a metal-stiffened flat-profile hook with a velcro closure; it was not ideal for reasons including massive protruding profile, difficulty in getting the rifle in and out of it, insensitive to the proliferation of the KAC RAS rails and the various things attached to them, and the slings of that era were in majority un-ideal; the supremacy of the BFG quick-adjusting 2-pt had not yet been fully established. DBT/BL being long folded, these are similar contemporary options: https://www.evike.com/products/38328/ and https://kiwibreaching.com/products/f...atch-tek-mount .

Precursor options to the modern-day Blue Force Gear M320 holster. The single-shot launchers at work are significantly greater in OAL and have fixed buttstocks, so this option may be out because of that dimensional box. Further, I have no real estate available for its mounting; cramming my duty loadout onto a 30" waist and a size small PC doesn't leave a lot of unused real-estate.

Fast roping weapon's catches have been around since at least the early 90s, a la https://www.215gearstore.com/multi-m...ponscatch.aspx ; but don't overly restrain the weapon nor consistently provide for orientation.

Leg-bags for breaching shotguns are amazingly ideal and I don't have the stature to really make something similar work.

Bungie-slings a la breaching shotguns are unideal in a foot pursuit and pair poorly with the sling for my primary long-gun.

S&S Precision has a more nuanced implementation of the previously explored 1913 attachment that slots a tab or ball into a belt-mounted catch; I don't have experience with them, but still lack belt-space for it and it'd require the launcher to be held in hand for a jump-out. https://www.sandsprecision.com/catal...ponlinktm-grt/ We'd need to buy two of the tab elements per PLS/launcher to really make this work for everyone, and it'd require each of them to have a rail system with 1913 rails on each side.

It's an unideal problem seemingly solely with unideal solutions; but we've all got to work within the policies of our workplaces.

(If no viable solution can be identified, then that may be the impetus to propose a TTP change at my workplace, to approach this differently.)

I'm grateful for whatever folks can offer from their agencies and/or experience.

[JRB]

Smaller stature and two long guns is always going to be a challenge.

I can only speak from some also-stale military M320 experience and a brief exposure to M500 shotguns (Mossbergs).
But that experience is screaming to me that you're looking for a 'gear miracle' here to solve an SOP/TTP problem.

For a fast 'jump out' sort of scenario here I'd be examining why org TTP's absolutely need a small dude carrying two long guns. That'd be the easiest adjustment, but lord knows I understand you if you say those TTP's and rules etc aren't ever going to change.
Second follow-on, if that individual does need both for whatever reason set, then I'd first strongly push to adjust the long gun configurations to suit, especially pushing for a smaller 40mm system that can be leg-bagged or holstered or similarly stowed in an 'ideal' or near-ideal method. I'd start with that from a frame of 'Reasonable Accommodations' under Equal Opportunity policy based on the smaller stature, as this need is no less valid than seen by the countless orgs have bought Glock 19's and Glock 43X's for smaller-statured officers.

I hate to play the EO card, but if the variables you lay out here are valid then it's a valid card to play if they're expecting smaller folks to haul that kind of gear. I wouldn't start by hoping for a kydex or cordura miracle to solve an improper weapon problem. Sending in folks with the wrong size weapons is no different than the wrong size armor or wrong size helmets. Having experienced the A2 buttstock era of military issue rifles, and seen personally how much smaller Soldiers struggled with it, I'm a bit sensitive to these things and I did what it took to get the goofy Blackhawk! knockoff A5 adjustable stocks for our M16's when it was warranted.

If this is exploratory because your org's policies/TTP's etc aren't going to change, and you're trying to find some proverbial shit-sandwich hot sauce so you can try to chew through it with the least misery, the case needs to be explained to leadership, exhaustively and often, in terms of how leadership would be accountable for how and when that fails. Then I'd double down on the reasonable accommodation requests and put it on as much paper as possible so that if/when something goes to hell, you're covered because you kept asking for the right stuff.

Ground-level dudes adapting and overcoming to bad equipment mixed with insane policy is a fact of life, but those ground level boys and girls owe it to their organization to be a squeaky wheel about how they're adapting, and just because they make it sort-of-work, doesn't make it acceptable or right.

I apologize if my thought process here is out of my lane or otherwise useless to you, but I genuinely despise the idea of leadership forcing higher-tier LEOs to engage in this sort of work with wildly non-ideal equipment. I hope you can find & get what you need!

[Grouse870]

We have assign a dedicated less lethal person that runs either the sage deuce 40mm single shot or a pepperball depending on what’s available or what he/she grabbed. Obviously they still have there handgun.

[MistWolf]

14 year old IP gun bearer

[cmbarny2]

For warrant service stuff, either assigned to run the rifle or you're assigned to run the 40. To me this gets into the whole "Taser taser taser BANG" category. Be assigned one system and that's your thing. 40/chem/LL guys can fall back to their pistol if need be and we used to keep their rifles bagged in the rig in the off chance roles needed to be switched. If its running a breaching shotgun and a long gun then I'd look at one of those breaching shotgun hooks (HSGI might have one and others) or again running the shotgun as your role. Dual role can get messy IMO.

[runcible]

Pardon the tardiness; I appreciate the thoughtful replies from everyone here.

Our stop-gap option is a limited fielding of Titan Retention straps (ref: https://titanretention.com/collections/products ), which will likely be expanding due to the positive use in the field to date.

Interchangeable function, post-entry, is a pretty big deal for our TTPs and SOPs; and we have both local and national manpower concerns that often have us running thinner than would necessarily be ideal. This drives everyone within the entry element towards having a lethal force option of the shoulder fired variety, though from time to time circumstances will have someone running their pistol for a short or longer period of time.

That said, I do need to put some time, both on the range and under loads, in phasing the subgun into the total workflow. Shield carriage is one of the last places that the pistol carries things farther, but I'd like to at least get some reps with running one of the ultralights, like that VelSys scutum, in combination with the subgun. Carrying that back to the initial topic, if I absolutely must run 2x longguns, one LL and one Lethal; than being able to strap them down and shorten one from rifle to subgun may reduce some of the hardship involved.

Closing out, I am generally a hardliner for 5.56mm/riflemanship as the solution to most of our problem set, versus 9mm/subguns, so this is a bit of an adjustment for me.

[Wes Peart]

"What's the current preferred way for you/your-org to manage having two long-guns on your person at the same time?"

The answer is "to not do it". One long gun seriously hampers your maneuverability and ability to handle normal tasks enough, two is a shit show. You are pretty much just a junk toter at that point. The only time I carried two "long guns" was when I was toting a Remington 870 MCS for breaching in the Army and I tried a number of ways to keep it out of the way and absolutely none of them were really successful. It was just some suck you had to live with. And an MCS is not nearly as annoying as a full sized less lethal shotgun or a 40mm.

What kind of crew are you on where the idea of someone having to have both a long gun AND a less lethal would even come up? Why is the responsibility for LL not delegated to one person who doesn't carry an additional long gun? No one wants to be that guy with a 40mm sponge shooter and a pistol instead of a short AR if a gunfight pops off but it isn't a perfect world and you don't wanna be that dude who has to go hands on with THREE weapon systems to keep secure in a scuffle either.

[RAM Engineer]

Anyone know what the USMC Force Reconnaissance SOP was back when they ran the MP5 for CQB and would transition to the M16A2 once they stepped outside?