Consistency

[Mooseheadpiper]

Hi Guys,
I'm new to shooting--I've only been going to the range for about 9 months. I finally reached the point where I could put 25 rounds in an inch and a half bullseye at 20 feet with my 38 revolver. This was my personal goal before I move on to more challenging stuff. But now I seem to be getting worse. I still have groupings of about an inch and a half (that's single action, it's more like 2 inches double action). But my groupings aren't centered in the bullseye anymore, they are off just a bit a lot of the time. And the odd thing is some days I'm a little high and to the left. Other days it's low and to the right. Or it might be just left, or just right, or just low etc. I'm very consistent for the day I'm shooting as to where my grouping is off, but the next time I go to the range it might change. I'm only talking maybe an inch or so off center, but I used to be able to hit dead center and it's getting me aggravated. I actually feel good about my fundamentals--the shots feel right. And I've had some instructors at the range watch me and they can't see anything wrong with my technique. Any ideas? Or is this normal to go through a slump like this? I'm hoping to compete someday, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Any ideas are most welcome. Thanks.

[nycnoob]

I posted my best advice to beginners over here:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...l=1#post154193


Also, we are not trying to be bulls-eye shooters here. The goal is "close enough, fast enough"

Todd Green has specific range instructions that he only is looking for hits on the given target, tight groups do not count more. So if he gives you a bigger target you should go faster, if your groups are too close then go faster. The smallest targets I have seen used consistently are two inch targets (Todd Green) with some one inch targets thrown in to the mix for an extra difficult shot. Claude Warner uses a CD to make his snubnose J-Frame targets. He traces the outline of the CD in black and colors the hole of the CD in red. The red is the aiming point for consistency and anything in the black counts. Standard CDs have a diameter of 120 millimetres (4.7 in) So I would say you are doing GREAT, now throw in some larger targets and try to go faster with them.

How big a revolver are you using?
I only practice double action with my revolvers. In fact I had my snub made Double Action Only (DAO) So its not even possible to shoot single action with my snubs.

[Chuck Haggard]

Are you always using the same ammo for practice?

[Mooseheadpiper]

I do use a lot of different ammo. But the last few weeks I've been using the same stuff-- I got a good deal on bulk Winchester target ammo at Walmart. Does ammo actually make that big of a difference?

Thank you also to NYCNOOB for your advice and drills.

Are you always using the same ammo for practice?

[ares338]

I do use a lot of different ammo. But the last few weeks I've been using the same stuff-- I got a good deal on bulk Winchester target ammo at Walmart. Does ammo actually make that big of a difference?

Thank you also to NYCNOOB for your advice and drills.

Wow...where is your Walmart? The 3 around me only have shotgun ammunition and occasionally some 40 S&W. I haven't seen WWB in a year...lol.

[Chuck Haggard]

I do use a lot of different ammo. But the last few weeks I've been using the same stuff-- I got a good deal on bulk Winchester target ammo at Walmart. Does ammo actually make that big of a difference?

Thank you also to NYCNOOB for your advice and drills.

What revolver?

And yes, different ammo can make a big difference. I have noted this much more with revolvers than pistols.

From some of my wheelguns I can see changes in POI vs POA as much as 5-6" due to bullet weight and velocity differences.

[David Armstrong]

As mentioned, ammo can play a part. What interests me is that you are still getting consistent groups, it is just that the groups are moving slightly if I understood you correctly. That tends to suggest an issue with the sights. Do you have adjustable sights? If so check and see if there is a bit of movement in the rear sight blade. Also, when doing bullseye style shooting sometimes things like how the light is hitting the sights will make small differences as that can create a subtle difference in the sight picture.

[Mooseheadpiper]

I'm using a Ruger GP100 with 4" barrel. The sights are adjustable. I just checked the rear sight and there's just the tiniest bit of play. I don't think it would be moving on its own, but as i mentioned, I'm a beginner at this so don't actually know what's normal. I'll have someone more knowledgeable than me look at it. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, light is a problem at the range I go to, so I'm wondering if the lane I'm in might have slightly different lighting and so depending on which lane and which day it might affect things a bit as you mentioned. If ammo is the cause, would it still result in a tight grouping but one that is just off slightly in one direction as I'm experiencing or would it result in more scattered shots?

Thanks to all who have answered so far. I appreciate all the input and I've learned a lot from you already. I like the fact that everyone seems to think the cause lies somewhere other than my technique. But in reality, I bet somehow it's my own damn fault! Anyway, thanks again.

As mentioned, ammo can play a part. What interests me is that you are still getting consistent groups, it is just that the groups are moving slightly if I understood you correctly. That tends to suggest an issue with the sights. Do you have adjustable sights? If so check and see if there is a bit of movement in the rear sight blade. Also, when doing bullseye style shooting sometimes things like how the light is hitting the sights will make small differences as that can create a subtle difference in the sight picture.

[walkin' trails]

Mooseheadpiper,

I've been shooting for a lot if years and still have bad days every now and then. What you're describing sounds a bit like you want to jerk the trigger or flinch once in a while. If that's the case, it's something you have to work thru. I find those bad habits creep back in and bite me once in a while. It has nothing to do with the fun.

Here's a bit if advice. Shoot ball and dummy drills. You load three rounds in random charge holes in the cylinder (ex. Two rounds, skip a hole, one round), spin and close the cylinder without looking, and shoot. When the hammer lands on an empty cylinder and you catch yyourself doing something to disturbs your front sight on target, you have found your problem. Then you work thru it. After six trigger presses during three rounds, load those empty charge holes with three rounds and run it again. Practice this drill with a box.

For what it's worth, I don't shoot as well on an indoor as I do outside. Also, you should consider taking a formal class than provides you with some strong emphasis on the fundamentals of marksmanship. All of us, regardless of the level of experience, all of us benefit from being a student once in a while. And it may be that your sights are a bit off or the ammo you shot had a different point of impact than earlier ammo, but again it helps to work with an experiences shooter or instructor to determine if it's you or the gun.

[David Armstrong]

If ammo is the cause, would it still result in a tight grouping but one that is just off slightly in one direction as I'm experiencing or would it result in more scattered shots?

Scattering is usually the result of you doing different things for each shot. That the groups are still tight tends to make me think you are doing the mechanics correctly each shot, but something is causing those same mechanics to lead to a slightly different result. Thus the concern for a loose sight, or ammo would also do that.