There is an unfortunate correlation of POS humans being attracted to owning pitsOriginally Posted by Crusader
All dogs can be incredibly aggressive. It’s not unique to pits. I’ve been bitten by both a German Shepard and a Lab. Do you know those good wholesome white people dogs.
Animals generally have higher resistance to pain than humans but they are not immune to it.
The rest is simply an alleged certainty fallacy i.e. “Everybody knows that X is true.” Therefore, X is true.
Have been bitten by both a GS and a Lab plus Had a dog shooting (Rottweiler intentionally released on us by an suspects son) and almost had a second (pit) who had recently bitten his owner (a sex offender) so you don’t have to sell me on the threat dogs in general can pose. Nor is that my argument.Because 2/3 dog mauling deaths are caused by pit bulls? That’s just math. Obviously there are sweet loving pits. And obviously there are aggressive pits bred specifically to be fighting dogs.
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I have gone out of my way as a LEO to try and make friends with every dog I have encountered on the job. I usually have beef jerky or crackers in the car. If we have to hop a fence or such, a slim Jim or peanut butter cracker slipped between fence boards has calmed most dogs. Went 45 years of my life without having any issues with dogs, and not understanding why anyone would shoot a dog.
But…
I have now been on the receiving end of a German Shepard bite. It got my left forearm and shook me like a rag doll. Fighting a dog with both hands would be a challenge. Fighting a 110lb dog with only one had was going to damn near d . I awould have had to shoot it if the owner (a friend) was not there to immediately pry its mouth open.
You don’t realize the power of that bite or how easily it will take you off your feet until you experience it. If there is more than one dog, and two of your limbs are out of the fight, you are screwed. A trained police dog will bite and hold a limb. That’s how they train. A random aggressive dog? Who knows if wants to go for your face or throat? Is it worth the risk?
A few antibiotic shots, some stitches and a lot of bruising left me with a valuable lesson. I will NOT get bit again. If someone’s dog is off leash and charging? Well, it might end badly.
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My argument is any dog large enough to be a threat displaying aggressive behavior is a threat. The whole nonsense about puts being somehow “immune to pain” or things like baton strikes or OC vs other breeds is nonsense. Various force options are going to be equally effective or not effective on any aggressive large breed dog. The rest is simply an alleged certainty fallacy.
Pits are one of the three most common dog breeds in the United States so their being involved in a majority of attacks is no surprise. The other two most common being labs and Chihuahuas. Chihuahuas bite people all the time. I’ve been bitten by chihuahuas twice and a lab once. I blame the lab bite squarely on the owner and Chihuahua bites simply don’t get reported in most cases because they rarely cause significant injury.
Last edited by HCM; 04-26-2023 at 02:50 AM.
I googled it and I can’t find where pitts are even in the top 10 most common here in the states.
You seem to take issue with us saying that certain breeds are more aggressive than other breeds. I don’t think any of us are denying that all dogs can be dangerous and mean, but to say that a breed that was bread specifically for violence and aggression is something to be more cautious around than something like a poodle… well that’s just the truth.
Good strategy.
If I were as athletic as my 10 month old Lab, I'd be doing 6' box jumps.
This thread has gone the same route as all before it. To Warped I say, as my beloved grandfather used to before I engaged in something stupid and/or dangerous, "I wouldn't do it that way."
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
1) You have not met "all dogs." I'm not particularly athletic, but I am certainly more athletic than some of my neighbor dogs, particularly the geriatric ones. The beagle and chihuahua across the street may have been forces to reckon with in their day, but I could crush either of them today. And today is all that matters.
2) Athletic ability, like IQ and good looks, exists within a population as a distribution. Some people are on the smart end of the curve and others are not. As a breed, pits are on the athletic end of the athleticism spectrum. If you randomly chose ten pits and compared their ability to ten chihuahuas, it is almost 100% certain that the pits could run faster, jump higher, and bite harder than the chihuahuas.
3) Pits are indeed common. The two people I know personally know well (1st cousin and next-door neighbor) who suffered dog attacks that required medical treatment were both attached by pit bulls.
Just found this: "DogsBite.org recorded 46 fatal dog attacks in 2020. Pit bulls contributed to 72% (33) of these deaths, over 16 times higher than any other dog breed."
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2021/06/20...iscussion.html
I don't think pits are 16x more popular than the second most popular dog breed.
Generally*, the same as shooting any other living being: an articulation that you were in fear of grievous bodily harm or death, and that articulation meeting the reasonable man standard. An articulation isn't just a statement that you were scared of getting bit; an articulation is citing specific observations about the attacker's actions and behaviors (to include history) that made you believe you were at risk of grievous bodily harm. Just because you've been bitten 3 times does not give you the right to shoot any dog that starts chasing you while you're out jogging.
This thread reads more like you're pissed off and almost want to find a reason to shoot a dog as opposed to giving any critical thought to your situation. That's likely why you got the "vigilante" comment from @Clusterfrack, or the comment by @Hambo, both of whom are overwhelmingly helpful dudes that don't shitpost just to get under peoples' skin. IMO, it's not the best read for you if a prosecutor were to get their hands on it after you were to shoot a dog and have things go sideways.
*state specific laws may outline more detailed situations in dispatching animals, but this is the general rule of thumb.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
HCM do you have a dog? If so, what breed is it?
I don't think a blog on "dogsbite.org" is an objective data source.
I've seen in a couple places that cite the CDC, but I don't see CDC data directly. The WHO cites the CDC and says the average is 885k require 'medical attention' annually. 30k require some sort of reconstructive surgery. Actual deaths are pretty low at 10-20.
The "30k require some sort of reconstructive surgery" is a bit of a surprise. 885k requiring "medical attention" can range from minor to anything short of "reconstructive surgery". I assume "a fuckton of stitches" probably falls in that 885k figure. How much of that vs just needing a band-aid isn't clarified.
Dogs are an emotional topic where people do emotional things. It kind of feels like how LE describe a lot of domestic violence calls. Fight starts with one of them then you're dealing with both of them. I have better things to do with the time and money that would pay for medical treatment after dealing with the dog attack and lawyers after dealing with the belligerent owner. It sucks to lose public spaces like parks because shitty people and their poorly socialized, aggressive dogs have created a content where it just isn't worth it. But it is what it is.
Currently a mastiff / lab mix but I’ve had both a pit and a pit mix before and would not hesitate to have one again given the same temperament standards one would apply to getting any dog.
Not that it’s relevant to the Fudd lore arguments re Pits advanced in every dog thread here.
My observation that areas where people intentionally let their dogs run loose is the hood / a place to avoid is based on spending my average work day in such places and encountering the dogs (loose and otherwise) found there in the course of those activities. The majority are pits and pit mixes so my experience is not based solely on my dog(s).
Last edited by HCM; 04-26-2023 at 09:37 AM.
Really? I didn't read it like that at all.
The whole thing reads to me like acknowledging that there's a potential threat and having the awareness to realize that once a fight starts it's likely downhill from there. So it's best to realize the pre-fight cues and know ahead of time where the threshold is for the fight to be something other than one-way. (And the ultimate, obvious conclusion of "yea it sucks but don't run in neighborhoods with a bunch of shitty dog owners' off leash pits.")
I absolutely, positively do not want to shoot a dog or any other sentient creature. But I also absolutely, positively will not just stand idly by and get mauled. Dogs aren't different from people in that once they start a fight only they know where they're going to stop. You have no choice but to respond accordingly.
The undercurrent of everyone in society needs to learn some dog whisperer skills because shitty people can't be bothered to socialize their animals is... bizarre. But then again I'm not a dog person. And I don't think I should have to be in order to not end up in court or the ER just because I was checking the mail.
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