Nashville Church School Shooting

[Borderland]

Fair enough, but we should be asking ourselves why so many people are on psych drugs. Have humans always been this depressed, anxious, or generally fucked up? If not, why are current generations having so many mental health issues? We should also consider that long term (meaning life long) psych meds are really an ongoing experiment.

That's my question also. Being older than most here it's a stark reality for me. Something radically changed in the last 50 years. Drug use and mass shootings weren't all that common 40-50 years ago.

I did notice that the WaPo has published more than one article about the AR-15 and mass shootings in the last few days. I haven't read any of them yet because I know I'll disagree with most of it, but it's there if anyone wants to read it. I'll probably read it in the next few days.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...main_p001_f004

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...at-we-learned/

Escalating arsenals: In response to years of right-wing violence and intimidation linked to the AR-15, some far-left activists have begun to form armed groups, billed as community defense, often turning to the AR-15 as their weapon, as well. Some leftist activists who long favored nonviolence have grown more tolerant of armed support at public events as threats against the LGBTQ community and other vulnerable groups rise and faith in law enforcement recedes.

[ccmdfd]

In Waco this weekend an angry teen killed his parents with a knife over an argument about air conditioning setting. He murdered his mother and step father. When I was teaching, sometimes a kid would say you better do this or that because I might get mad. I always told them to go ahead and get mad. Once when a kid threatened to beat his head against the wall, I told him to back up over there so he could get a running start. One tried to kill me with a steel chair. I never got a response from the office.

My 3rd year med school psych rotation was spent entirely in the inpatient adolescent psych ward. We were supposed to chat with the patients and play foozeball.



I was talking to my first such patient, a 13 year old boy. I asked “why are you here?” to which he responded “I hit my mom”. Of course my next question was “why did you do that?”, to which he said “she told me to pick my dirty clothes up off of the floor”.



I came sooooo very close to replying “buddy if I did that I’d be in the hospital too, but not in the adolescent psych ward. Best case scenario Trauma ICU, worst case-the morgue”. But of course punishing our kids is not allowed other than time outs (at least back then, don’t know what current norms are).

[CraigS]

One other heartbreaking thing about that goodbye thread was this,

"I know but I don't want to live...I just need to die"

Well OK MFer, just do yourself then. No need to kill 6 other people.

[cosermann]

The law would need to change, because it doesn't look like TN allows carry in private schools by licensees, even with school permission. Church schools are rarely rolling in spare cash, so I doubt very many would be able to afford a off-duty officer for security.

Exactly.

[HCM]

Do the stickers on the guns mean anything to you guys?

https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/nashvi...d-with-3-guns/

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Not specifically but that plus the writing reminds me of the New Zealand mosque shooter.

[FrankB]

I’m not masochistic enough to look at CNN, MSNBC, or even CBS, but I did check last night and today. There is not a single hint of the murderer being “transgender”. I’m not saying this was the cause of the killing*, but those outlets usually tell you what the shooters had for breakfast that day. When a “news” outlet runs a “What We Know About the Shooter”, and omits that tidbit, we’re being fed a false narrative.

* I’m not implying that being trans caused this person to kill anyone. They may have been angry about many things.

[JHC]

Have humans always been this depressed, anxious, or generally fucked up? If not, why are current generations having so many mental health issues?

In general I think so. Across American history, families have been shattered because of hardships be they economic, health or violence or other causes that created sociopaths. Johnny Ringo's sad life story always comes to mind.

Now, with a giant pool of 330 million or so there are lots and lots of them.

The late 19th century seemed a prolific early American period. This list is long and grisly. What are the chances more existed than were ever identified?

https://blogs.loc.gov/headlinesandhe...erial-killers/

[FrankB]

When the media plays “assault weapons are designed to kill as many people as possible” on an endless loop, killers are going to adjust their shopping list accordingly.

That's my question also. Being older than most here it's a stark reality for me. Something radically changed in the last 50 years. Drug use and mass shootings weren't all that common 40-50 years ago.

I did notice that the WaPo has published more than one article about the AR-15 and mass shootings in the last few days. I haven't read any of them yet because I know I'll disagree with most of it, but it's there if anyone wants to read it. I'll probably read it in the next few days.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...main_p001_f004

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...at-we-learned/

[TC215]

Body cam video released.

Yes, there's plenty to critique as far as tactics, but:

- they made entry
- they began clearing (no driving force)
- when the driving force presented itself (gunshots), they moved to it immediately

Strong work from MNPD.

[HCM]

Genuine question, of the mass shooters in the last 5 years (not the media definition that includes gang-bangers and shit like that), which would you say were "crazy" and which were just "evil"?

my issue with the idea of "some people are just evil" (an idea I used to espouse myself) and why I pointed out that there are almost always warning signs as a response to that idea, is that it too often becomes an excuse. Either for not catching this actor, or for not preventing later similar actions.

Tying this back to the broader purpose of this forum, as firearms enthusiasts I think it's important to do what we can to help prevent these kinds of actions as the knee-jerk reaction of the society that created these people is to blame the object.

On that note, my wife read me something she found online about the shooting, purportedly from a Spanish author, that pointed out "there are 400 million guns in America. If guns were the problem, a lot more of you would be dead."

Call it "evil", call it "mental problems"... call it fucking "cumquat", I don't care... Beyond the moral obligation as citizens and Americans, it's encumbant upon us to address the underlying issues and try to resolve them.

And there’s no exhaustive breakdown, but I can give you two examples, one of each type with similar themes.

The Sutherland springs church shooter was a mean, evil SOB, maybe a sociopath but not “crazy” in a not responsible for his actions fashion. He had a lengthy history of domestic violence, cruelty, to animals and sexual assault and his motivation appears to have been revenge against his in laws for the prior molestation of his wife. Think less avenging Angel, and more outrage that his father-in-law had messed with his property and that the mother-in-law played a role in covering it up or allowing it to happen. It also seemed he actually believed he’d be able to do this and get away with it.

In contrast several months after the Sutherland springs church shooting, a former US Marine Embassy guard affiliated with a black Hebrew Israelite movement, walked into a restaurant in Seguin, Texas with a stolen handgun asking where the nearest church was. This individual suffered from schizophrenia, and he believed that a church in Vidor, Texas was actually a front for a CIA torture center that was targeting minorities. Vidor TX is East of Houston. This individual got into his vehicle and attempted to drive to the church in Vidor however, he was so disoriented due to his mental illness, that he left his wallet in a strip club and drove the wrong way (West) on IH -10 winding up running out of gas just outside Seguin, TX and was trying to walk to a church to complete his “mission.”

Big difference between someone acting on hallucinations and a selfish asshole acting for self gratification.

People want to over analyze an over medicalize everyone because it makes them feel better about what swims with them in the sea of people we all live in.