Pistol Caliber Carbines For Patrol Use?

[WobblyPossum]

Hijack question for the group….

Let’s assume that the use of Glock mags, the +10in barrel length, and ~$2k price are fixed requirements.

What *would* a good option be that would give this dept an out of the box reliable issue gun?

If 10” or longer barrels are a requirement, that really limits the possible options. You might be stuck with some direct blowback, AR type gun like the Wilson. If a shorter barrel was acceptable, and the other requirements (Glock magazine compatibility and $2k price tag) are still in place, I’d grab a B&T APC9 or SPC9. Vetted, reliable, and really accurate. The APC9 has been awarded a couple of government contracts already. The SPC9 even has an AR style charging handle for people used to the AR manual of arms.

[TGS]

I don't know if there's any "good" options for such a poorly contrived set of parameters.

Plenty of workable options, but none that are objectively good by 2023 standards.

The SPC9 can be had in a 16" barrel, but I don't know if that is within the parameters. I'm assuming 10+ means 10-11", not literally anything over 10", because why the fuck would any LEA buy a 16" 9mm gun....

Of course, why the fuck the agency response to replacing their shotguns is anything but, "Buy more of the patrol rifles we're already using" is also an unknown...so whatever, I guess we're sort of in the twilight zone to begin with.

[Magsz]

I don't know if there's any "good" options for such a poorly contrived set of parameters.

Plenty of workable options, but none that are objectively good by 2023 standards.

The SPC9 can be had in a 16" barrel, but I don't know if that is within the parameters. I'm assuming 10+ means 10-11", not literally anything over 10", because why the fuck would any LEA buy a 16" 9mm gun....

Of course, why the fuck the agency response to replacing their shotguns is anything but, "Buy more of the patrol rifles we're already using" is also an unknown...so whatever, I guess we're sort of in the twilight zone to begin with.

My life...

We could be buying a whole lot of weapon lights, red dots and rifles with this money. Plus, a whole lot of ammunition and training. Again, i'm a nobody.

[MountainRaven]

If 10” or longer barrels are a requirement, that really limits the possible options. You might be stuck with some direct blowback, AR type gun like the Wilson. If a shorter barrel was acceptable, and the other requirements (Glock magazine compatibility and $2k price tag) are still in place, I’d grab a B&T APC9 or SPC9. Vetted, reliable, and really accurate. The APC9 has been awarded a couple of government contracts already. The SPC9 even has an AR style charging handle for people used to the AR manual of arms.

But are any of those APC9 contracts for models that accept Glock (or any other pistol) magazine?

I would expect that any requirement for a PCC to accept Glock magazines is going to have a negative impact on its reliability compared to a, "proprietary," double-stack, double-position feed magazine designed for a long gun.

[WobblyPossum]

But are any of those APC9 contracts for models that accept Glock (or any other pistol) magazine?

I would expect that any requirement for a PCC to accept Glock magazines is going to have a negative impact on its reliability compared to a, "proprietary," double-stack, double-position feed magazine designed for a long gun.

The CBP SRT contract guns use the Glock mag lowers and the Miami Beach Police contract guns use the P320 lowers. Those are probably the largest contracts I know for the 9mm guns that didn’t want B&T mags. Westchester PD in NY ordered a small amount of APC9 SDs with Glock lowers (14 or so guns). Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office in Florida bought Glock lower guns but I can’t find how many they got. São Paulo Military Police in Brazil awarded a contract for APC40s with Glock lowers. I can’t find the number of guns ordered but the B&T press release mentioned the São Paulo Military Police has over 100,000 personnel. I haven’t heard of any reliability issues with the APCs that use other than B&T magazines.

[rob_s]

It sure does seem like this would be a viable option, as it sounds like it can take Glock mags, has a basis in other agency purchases, and at 9in the barrel would seem to be close enough to the +/-10in that I meant to write previously.


https://bt-usa.com/products/spc9/

@Magsz, is there some sort of formal RFP/RFQ for which the Wilson was deemed the “winner”.

Based on my past of responding to some of those things I found that sometimes they were written such that the winner was predetermined. But would still be interesting to know if there was a criteria.

[HeavyDuty]

It sure does seem like this would be a viable option, as it sounds like it can take Glock mags, has a basis in other agency purchases, and at 9in the barrel would seem to be close enough to the +/-10in that I meant to write previously.


https://bt-usa.com/products/spc9/

@Magsz, is there some sort of formal RFP/RFQ for which the Wilson was deemed the “winner”.

Based on my past of responding to some of those things I found that sometimes they were written such that the winner was predetermined. But would still be interesting to know if there was a criteria.

Oh, now *that’s* sexy.

[Magsz]

It sure does seem like this would be a viable option, as it sounds like it can take Glock mags, has a basis in other agency purchases, and at 9in the barrel would seem to be close enough to the +/-10in that I meant to write previously.


https://bt-usa.com/products/spc9/

@Magsz, is there some sort of formal RFP/RFQ for which the Wilson was deemed the “winner”.

Based on my past of responding to some of those things I found that sometimes they were written such that the winner was predetermined. But would still be interesting to know if there was a criteria.

I don't have that information and if I did, I wouldn't be able to publish it.

I don't believe the Wilson is the "winner" only the front runner due to fan boy lust.

B&T makes a very nice product. I heard mention of an APC9 possibly being tested but I don't know where we are with that.

[rob_s]

I don't have that information and if I did, I wouldn't be able to publish it.

I wasn’t sure if there might have been a more public “request for proposals” or “qualifications” or something.

I believe the ones I had knowledge of in the past were all available just not publicized.

[RevolverRob]

I wasn’t sure if there might have been a more public “request for proposals” or “qualifications” or something.

I believe the ones I had knowledge of in the past were all available just not publicized.

What you're seeing here is the effect of a bunch of dipshits who haven't carried a gun on a street for years, shot at anyone or been shot at in years (if ever), or otherwise have any general understanding of terminal ballistics, wanting to spend money on 'cool stuff'.

Probably one of their idiot buddies bought a WC PCC and showed it to one of the trainers and it set this stupid shit in motion.

Sorry for your situation @Magsz it's a shame that you're dealing with this type of retardery from people who have influence over these matters.