Provisional Limited Optics

[fatdog]

Production division came to be in the middle of the Klinton gun ban when you could not buy new magazines other than 10 rounders in any state. While I am sorry for the people living in the communist states with the 10 round limits, most of the nation has not had that restriction for about 19 years now. It makes absolutely no sense. The original purpose of production division was to get new people into the sport without having to have a full on race gun to start.

For the reasons cited above, that these newb's feel bad needlessly for having to do 3 mag changes on a big field course, that 10 round limit should go in order to facilitate the original intent. I don't care if they do the 15 round limit like IDPA did, or 140mm, but it needs to go to serve the whole intent of production division.

[Bucky]

I keep seeing references to avoiding another"arms race". It caused a great deal of friction from nearly the beginning of IPSC with the adoption of the .38 Super for less recoil and 2 extra shots, then in the early 90's with the availability of wide bodies and optics, and IDPA was originally designed to preclude both a technological arms race and the "rubbin' is racin'" approach of "gamers".
Uh huh.
USPSA competition has driven the advancement of both weapon technology and technique into heights undreamt of by the military, police or all the Olympic and NRA disciplines that came before.
Instead of viewing the Arms Race as some destructive analog to Nuclear Proliferation perhaps it might be viewed as the apotheosis of Cooper's dictum "Competition improves the breed."

While I see potential new shooters as being frustrated by their equipment's shortcomings in his first outing, anyone who sees the ferocious shooting skill in even local matches and thinks"I only lost because they were shooting Rooney guns" is so self deceiving that they'll never develop as a shooter, much less a competitor, no matter how you try to accommodate them.

Agree, but We already have divisions for this, and they will continue to be popular. Plus it looks like we’ll be adding another. Why not have one with some restraints? Still allows for quite a bit of innovation.

ETA, I love the concept of IDPA, but the execution utterly sucks. It was barely a “action” shooting sport, and the 1 point / one second down rule killed any notion of that. That’s when I bailed.

[Bucky]

For the reasons cited above, that these newb's feel bad needlessly for having to do 3 mag changes on a big field course, that 10 round limit should go in order to facilitate the original intent. I don't care if they do the 15 round limit like IDPA did, or 140mm, but it needs to go to serve the whole intent of production division.

From what I highlighted above, sounds like a stronger argument for capping at 15 or 17.

Production division came to be in the middle of the Klinton gun ban when you could not buy new magazines other than 10 rounders in any state. While I am sorry for the people living in the communist states with the 10 round limits, most of the nation has not had that restriction for about 19 years now.

FWIW 9 states, plus DC has mag capacity restrictions. I’ll bet we see 2 or three more in the next 4 years.

[JCN]

From what I highlighted above, sounds like a stronger argument for capping at 15 or 17.

FWIW 9 states, plus DC has mag capacity restrictions. I’ll bet we see 2 or three more in the next 4 years.

I agree. So no way am I voluntarily going to go low cap when I still can stay high cap.

Later on if the nation caps at 10… that changes the calculus again, but for now I’m going to enjoy more peew.

[fatdog]

FWIW 9 states, plus DC has mag capacity restrictions. I’ll bet we see 2 or three more in the next 4 years.

The classifiers are 10 round mag friendly. Let those states run their matches with a 10 round limit but no reason to penalize the rest of the country.

[Artemas2]

A nearby section match in NY opened registration a few weeks ago and has a solid sign up so far



Ban states are not affected by any increased capacity changes as they are ALL 10 round divisions and they still don't shoot iron sight divisions at home.
They also seem to do just fine when they cross the border...
The only down side is they get screwed on the non mandatory reload classifiers, but again they ain't shooting irons anyway...
At this point I would not mind seeing 15 round production, but I also don't see it saving the division.

[Bucky]

The classifiers are 10 round mag friendly. Let those states run their matches with a 10 round limit but no reason to penalize the rest of the country.

Admittedly, I am biased as I spent many years living in a ban state, and wanting to shoot Area matches and Nationals. Many of these was before there were divisions with mag capacity limits. Hell, some of these years were before divisions!

But yeah, I moved away, so screw those people,,, I guess.

Again, I would support a 15 round or 17 round cap. Factory magazines are easier to come buy for an oppressed shooter (borrow, store out of state) than tweaked up mags, and more importantly are more likely to work out of the box.

[fatdog]

Again, I would support a 15 round or 17 round cap. Factory magazines are easier to come buy for an oppressed shooter (borrow, store out of state) than tweaked up mags, and more importantly are more likely to work out of the box.

15 would at least let CO and IL people back under the tent, in my part of the world it would likely not require you doing more than a single mag change for 75-80% of club match stages

[Clusterfrack]

15 round Production would be fine. Parity with IPSC. No mag extensions required. No arms race to squeeze an extra round at the cost of reliability. And, 15 still penalizes unnecessary makeups and requires strategy.

[GJM]

With 8 round arrays, aren't you still reloading between every array or going to slide lock without a single make up shot with 15 round magazines?