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Thread: A general 30-06 Question for the SMEs

  1. #1
    I Demand Pie Lex Luthier's Avatar
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    A general 30-06 Question for the SMEs

    I have been almost obsessively perusing the used Husqvarna 1640 30-06 rifle listings looking for a nice candidate for a Northern MN/WI deer rifle.
    (Something about them grabs me more than even a JC Higgins 50 or 51. I really like small ring Mausers. Ithaca/Sako 571L models are scarce online. Maybe I ought to be driving north and digging through Iron Range LGS rifle racks.)

    A lot of the Husky 1640s I am seeing have barrel lengths shorter than 24". I understand Tradewinds in WA state brought many of these in as "carbines" with 21" barrels, and I've seen a few that were import marked by Simpson LTD that are 21" or 21.5" with threaded muzzles for suppressor use since they likely came from Sweden or Norway.

    How short is too short for a 1-12 twist 30-06 barrel using common medium-weight hunting bullets?

    Signed,

    "Perplexed in Pig's Eye"
    Last edited by Lex Luthier; 11-30-2022 at 01:01 PM.
    “If future historians look back to our time and scratch their heads for a dominant theme, pretending not to notice obvious patterns seems a pretty good starting point.” -David Thompson

  2. #2
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    Good question. You get more muzzle blast and lose significant velocity in '06 barrels shorter than 22 inches. If you handload a milder load from a 20" barrel is not unpleasant and is effective at woods ranges. I keep my woods loads around 2700 fps with "starting" loads from Speer for 150-grain Hot-Cor bullet from my 1935 Winchester 54 carbine. Ballistics much like a .300 Savage.

  3. #3
    Too short how? Winchester sure sold a lot of 22" M70 Featherweights and some 20" "carbines".

    Might be kind of loud, but how many shots on game?
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  4. #4
    I Demand Pie Lex Luthier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Too short how? Winchester sure sold a lot of 22" M70 Featherweights and some 20" "carbines".

    Might be kind of loud, but how many shots on game?
    I'm thinking of the claimed 15-20 FPS loss per inch below 24". I'm asking because I don't know what I don't know.

    @Outpost75 I don't currently handload, but ought to.
    “If future historians look back to our time and scratch their heads for a dominant theme, pretending not to notice obvious patterns seems a pretty good starting point.” -David Thompson

  5. #5
    Negligible.
    I got 2916 fps from the old S&W brand 150 gr .30-06 in a 24".
    20 fps per inch leaves you at 2856 in 21".
    The Army thought 2750 was plenty.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  6. #6
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    I shoot a lot of 30-06 but none from short barrels (yet). So these aren't my numbers but posted years ago on another site when I was considering cutting a barrel to 16", all are 150 grain bullets out of cheap factory ammo. Just to give some real world velocities, the first number is out of a 24"/the second number out of a 16" so 8" of barrel loss:

    2700/2440= 260 fps velocity loss.
    2650/2350= 300
    2660/2350= 310
    2530/2130= 400

    That guy had much more than 15-20 fps/inch of barrel loss.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Velocity per inch of barrel length is not a linear relationship for the full length of the barrel.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  8. #8
    A 21 inch 30-06 will have no problem killing a deer.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Colt191145lover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    A 21 inch 30-06 will have no problem killing a deer.
    Neither would a 16 inch honestly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luthier View Post
    I have been almost obsessively perusing the used Husqvarna 1640 30-06 rifle listings looking for a nice candidate for a Northern MN/WI deer rifle.
    (Something about them grabs me more than even a JC Higgins 50 or 51. I really like small ring Mausers. Ithaca/Sako 571L models are scarce online. Maybe I ought to be driving north and digging through Iron Range LGS rifle racks.)

    A lot of the Husky 1640s I am seeing have barrel lengths shorter than 24". I understand Tradewinds in WA state brought many of these in as "carbines" with 21" barrels, and I've seen a few that were import marked by Simpson LTD that are 21" or 21.5" with threaded muzzles for suppressor use since they likely came from Sweden or Norway.

    How short is too short for a 1-12 twist 30-06 barrel using common medium-weight hunting bullets?
    Most cheap 30-06 factory ammo is loaded for deer hunters, so performance is optimized for that. Buy it, use it in confidence, and don’t sweat the twist rate. 1:10 is standard for the 30-06 for one reason: the 30-03 needed it for 220-grain bullets and it was too expensive to rebarrel 75,000 rifles when we switched to the 30-06. The gubmint pulled the barrels, cut off the back ends off, rechambered them, and reinstalled them. If we were starting today without that limitation, the twist would probably be 1:12, which is standard for the 30-30 and the 308 Winchester.

    As for the rifle itself, I applaud your choice. I live just outside Tacoma, WA, where Tradewinds used to be. We see lots of these rifles on used racks around here and I've owned six or seven of them, all in 30-06.

    Different variants got different model numbers, but 1640 typically refers to the action. I’ve seen three variants on the 1640 action. The first and least common has a Monte Carlo buttstock and a Mannlicher forend. The second has a Monte Carlo buttstock and a Schnable forend. The third has a standard buttstock (lots of drop at the comb and heel) and a Schnable forend. The first and third types are usually walnut. The second is usually a light-colored hardwood that may be either birch or beech.

    Unfortunately, recoil in all three types tend to split the web of the stock, but glass bedding fixes that. All of mine had 1:12 twist barrels and most were very accurate with cheap factory ammo.

    Barrels came in three lengths: 20.5”, 22”, and 24”. Every Mannlicher gun I’ve seen had a 20.5” barrel and all Monte Carlo/Schnable guns had 22” barrels. I’ve seen all three lengths on the standard/Schnable rifles.

    All three are very light, and IIRC, all have low iron sights. The standard/Schnable rifles are stocked perfectly for these sights, which means they’re too low for a scope. But if you put a peep on them, then you have a slick little carbine that’s no longer or heavier than a 30-30 but has twice the reach. The Monte Carlo/Schnable guns fit me almost perfectly and are ideal for offhand shooting. They’re my choice for scoped use.

    I've owned three 20.5” guns in 30-06 and I think the barrel is too short for it. That said, the only one I still own is a 20.5” that my father gave me. A few years ago, my son used it to clobber a 200-ish pound hog in California with a 165-grain Remington CoreLokt bullet handloaded to 2,550 FPS. That hog was bigger than most deer and everything worked perfectly.

    A few other things to know about them:
    • Most of them have military-type triggers, which are a lot like Glock triggers. Timney makes the upgrade you need.
    • At some point, any 1640 will stop ejecting and cases will dribble out of the action. That's because the ejector is tensioned by a little leaf spring that's held in place by a screw and the screw backs out. Re-tighten the screw, add a dab of red LocTite, and you'll be back in business.
    • The serial number is on the barrel, not the action. If you rebarrel it, then your smith needs to carry the number over.
    • Many commercial 98 aftermarket parts will work, often with little or no fitting. So will most tuning tricks that apply to Mausers. Brownell’s is a good source of information on parts for them.
    • The 1900 action (push feed) replaced the 1640 in the late 60s.
    • The 1640 had two types of bottom metal: steel and alloy. You can tell by the floorplate latch. On earlier guns, the latch is a folded steel spring. On later guns, it’s a protrusion inside the trigger guard like on a Model 700 Remington. Stocks inletted for one won’t work with the other.
    • The front of the alloy magazine can get dented under recoil if you shoot a lot, but this may not be a problem with cartridges less powerful than the 30-06 or if you don’t load the 30-06 to the maximum.

    If you like older lightweight rifles with wood stocks and you hunt in bad weather, a 22” 1640 glass bedded into a beech Monte Carlo/Schnable stock with a 4x scope is a superb choice.

    I think they stand up well to the pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight.

    Let me know if you have questions.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

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