Shoot, that's my home area. I could've picked it up for you.Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's
Shoot, that's my home area. I could've picked it up for you.
Their prices are incredible. Even paying $800 to have it delivered it would be way cheaper. Or fly in and drive it home, they'd pick me up at the airport.Shoot, that's my home area. I could've picked it up for you.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
That’s where I got the 2020 Ram 1500 I’m currently driving, two weeks before Laura hit.
Ok, talk me out of it/poke holes in my logic of selecting the PW over the F-150 Tremor:
I think I'm just going to order a 2023 Power Wagon. I like the 2021 75th Anniversay edition, but the only thing unique is the brown seats and the rims/rock rails. The rims and rock rails are available as an off road package anyway, but I'll go aftermarket rock rails and the rims aren't that big a deal to me. My wife says "buy whatever you want" then gets cranky when I look at used trucks. Apparently "buy a new truck" was literal.
Intended use: Long distance recreational trips, occasional hardware store runs, inclimate weather use on occasion, 200-ish mile round trips to my rural property and friends/family visits. Limited but occasional off road/trail use. Service roads and light to moderate trails at best. The occasional trip to TX, CO, UT but anything further would be very rare.
Power Train (mild win PW). The 6.4/8 speed is just a smoother power train. The Ford F-150 Tremor was quicker without a doubt, but also clunkier. Turbos, wastegates, and that 10 speed did not make a smooth "2 lane passing" sort of manuever when you got on it hard then left off suddenly. If you stay in it, it takes a bit to catch but then it's gone. I think it's more the 10 speed than the motor, but it's there. The PW is not as quick but is more predicatable and linear, if that makes sense. The big NA motor just does it's thing without drama and the 8 speed is dialed in. Tremor passes in less space, though, and feels sportier.
Interior (strong win PW). Honestly, no comparison. The Ram's interior is just nicer when comparing top trim to top trim. Both are comfortable, but the Ram is slightly more so. The leather and the plastics in the Tremor look cheaper when viewed side by side. Which is fair given that it is cheaper, which we'll touch on in a bit.
Exterior (mild win PW). This is really subjective, but I like the Ram more. Not enough that it's a big deal, but especially with Tracer graphics and the top trim with the vertical grill, I like it more than the Tremor. I really don't like the extreme rake of the Tremor, but a level will take care of that so it's a non-issue.
Price (strong win Tremor). Optioned the way I want them, roughly $8k difference in price. This isn't entirely fair, as some features that would come with the Tremor will not be on the PW but come standard with the high package. A true apples to apples would be closer to $10k. I just don't care enough about lane assist, emergency braking, etc. to buy the safety package on the PW.
Technology (mild win Tremor). Tremor's tech package has more stuff like drive modes and comes with more driver assist stuff standard. The display is fully digital, although the rumor is the 2023 PW will be as well. I kind of like the mix of analog/digital the current one has, though.
Trucky-ness (mild win PW). Honestly not that much more capable in terms of payload due to the soft springs, it's a very light 3/4 ton or a heavy 1/2 ton as far as that goes. But, 6'4" bed. I have been hesitant to go to a 5.5" bed for a few reasons, not least of which is I can sleep in the 6'4" bed with an air mattress and mosquito net as well as more easily do the hardware store runs over a 5.5' bed. I don't plan to tow anything, and if I do it's unlikely it would stress a Rav-4 so the mild differences in towing capacity is a non-issue for me.
Urban use (very mild win Tremor). Tremor is 7" shorter lengthwise and 1" shorter heightwise. Width is fractions of an inch difference. Both have cameras, cross path detection for backing out of head-in curb spots, etc. The PW has fucking fantastic visibility. Neither is going to be fun to find a parking structure for, but Tremor will be slightly easier to parallel park or head in park.
Highway use (very mild win PW). The ride quality of the PW surprised me. The F-150 unladen is more bouncy and floaty, especially in the rear, but it's only noticable on really bad sections of road, like hitting a big ass chuckhole on an on ramp. The PW feels planted regardless, and thanks to the soft springs and the fact it's coils it rides very nicely. Really surprising for a 3/4 ton. *BUT* range sucks. 16mpg is realistic from everything I've read, 31 gallon tank. So usuable range of around 400-ish miles. I'm used to 500-ish, and the Tremor is around 600-ish. I value both relatively equally, and a part of me says it's easy to swap shocks and it's easy to carry gas cans, so neither is likely insurmountable. The visibility from the PW is fucking incredible, though. It still has the 4th gen cab dimensions so you sit up higher in the cab than the 5th gen Ram, add in the extra ride height, and it's like driving a brontosaurus.
Infotainment (draw). Ford has more intuitive physical buttons, Ram has some buttons but wants you to use the screen for more stuff. Both have nice screens. Factory sound system is better in the Ram, but not dramatically so. I find Uconnect understands my voice commands more reliably than Sync, but haven't gotten to play with the latest versions of either that's in these trucks much.
Desire to fuck-with-it-ness (win PW). Bed cover and rock rails, eventually 35" tires when the OEMs are done and maybe upgrade the shocks when the OEMs are done. I don't see anything else I need or want. Tremor? I'm going to fuck with it. I'll want the extra HP from a 93 only tune, it needs a level and tires out of the gate. I want a winch, since I'll be alone most of the time on trails, which will be a bother on the Tremor since you need to relocate the intercooler. Which, while you're in there you might as well get an aftermarket one for more cooling...
Longevity (no crystal ball, but guessing...PW?). I just can't imagine a twin turbo V6 is going to last as long as a NA V8, but maybe I'm wrong. Both transmissions are apparently well proven. The ball joints, etc. on the PW are the same as the other 2500s so made for the extra 600-ish lbs of a diesel motor. That's got to be good for longevity, right? I've not had rust issues with my 2012 Ram since I take care of it. I'll fluid film the PW and keep it nice as well, so corrosion shouldn't be a concern.
Misc: PW is going to take longer to be delivered, per guesstimates. I'm ordering from Granger in Iowa either way, Ford or Ram, and they think they'd get the Tremor quicker. I'm not super worried about it, but if I could get it today I could get 2.5% interest at my credit union. I don't *have* to finance, but I think I want to at 2.5%. I just doubt that rate is still there in 6-9 months. Fuel costs aren't a huge concern, but 16mpg highway vs 20mpg highway but 87 octane vs 93 octane for best performance (you *can* use 87 in the Ford, you just lose power). Given the spread in per gallon costs, probably not that big a deal. Especially no more than I drive. Plates and insurance are pretty much samey-same.
So, what'd I miss? Any compelling reason, other than wallet cramps, to not go with the PW?
Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 10-09-2022 at 11:03 PM.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Swarfworks makes a winch bumper for the Raptor for about $600. However, an intercooler relocation kit is needed and they go from about $1200 and up.
https://swarfworks.com/2021-ford-rap...t-winch-mount/
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The power wagon is 2500 only right? Or it used to be? No 1500?
I don’t see “towing” in your list of requirements so wondering why the HD? If it’s because:feels that’s fine, but wouldn’t the Rebel be less expensive and get you a lot of the same features (I am totally there with you on factory options vs, tinkering!) at a lower price?
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The Power Wagon is 2500 only, but it's not a tow rig. I touched on it briefly in the "trucky-ness" section, but because of the soft suspension it has greatly reduced payload and trailer tow ratings. On paper, anyway, a 5.7L 4x4 Ram 1500 with 3.92 gears (like the V8 equipped Rebel) has *more* payload and *more* towing capacity than the 2500 Power Wagon.
PW: 1,630 / 10,590 lb
Rebel: 1,810 / 11,210 lb
Non-PW gas 2500: 3,250/ 17,080 (in the same 4x4 6'4" bed configuration, goes higher in other configurations)
What you get is the robustness. A drivetrain, frame, axles, ball joints, brakes, etc. that are designed for double those bigger "normal" 2500 numbers that the springs on the PW won't let you get to. The PW is also geared differently at 4.10 vs, 3.73 for the other gas trucks. Better for acceleration and for offsetting bigger tires.
The feature set for the Rebel has some overlap, but both have their own features you can't get on the other. The ones that I would like from the Rebel are the HUD and the split rear tailgate that lets you open it barn door style for easier access to the bed.
However, it lacks most of the off-road features of the PW. No factory winch, no front locker option at all including aftermarket, no sway bar disconnect. The camera system does not show your wheel tracks going forward nor show your front wheel tracks when reversing, which makes spotting yourself easier. Ground clearance is much less than the PW. Skid plate package is less robust. Plastic bumper covers vs steel bumpers. Camera package in the PW is better at showing your track.
Driving experience was very different. The ride height and seating height in the cab of the PW combined to give much better visibility over the hood and of your surroundings. No hood flutter, either. You get more cab but less bed. The leg room in the PW is plenty for front and back passengers, the Rebel adds another 5-6" of rear leg room for reasons I don't get unless back passengers want to put their feet against the seat backs of the front passengers.
The only 1/2 ton that is competitive with the off road features is the Chevy Silverado ZR2, which is vaporware at the moment and has it's own issues that kick it from my consideration.
Pricewise, it slots between the Tremor and the PW. The Tremor is more off-road capable and more techy, and I preferred the riding position. The Rebel ended up in 3rd by a decent margin even without penciling it out.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
They have a 2500 Rebel coming. You might want to look at that if you are ordering anyway. The only reliability thing I ever wondered about with the Power Wagons was the disconnecting sway bar.
Power Wagons are cool as hell. I park in a ramp, live in too much of an urban area, drive too much and my 1500 barely fits in my garage. Will be a getting a midsize next.
I wish I could justify a Power Wagon. You'll spend a little more but you'll probably get some back when you sell it down the road. I don't think you'll regret it. The tremor is pretty much just a leveled F150 and F150's are dime a dozen. I don't think I'll ever buy a truck with leaf springs again either.
The Power Wagon is different, just get it.
From what I can tell, unless you want a diesel or care about the special Rebel-only hood the PW is the way to go. It removes the sway bar disconnect and front locker and makes the winch optional. You can't get the diesel AND winch, due to intercooler placement. I don't want a diesel anyway.
You can't order a Rebel yet, either, and I want to get my price protection in place soon. MSRPs aren't going to drop and I'll get any rebates/incentives at time of delivery regardless.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
You’re saying the PW does NOT come with a front locker?
Does it come with a rear locker? Is the front locker optional?
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