Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[HCM]

It doesn't help that this DPS Colonel is displaying early onset ahlzimers and not conveying information very well, while at the same time he sort of loses his bearing and passes judgement without really delving into the details of why a decision was made.

A dude with nervous tics that is having trouble organizing his thoughts that gets pissed off and says it was the wrong call strikes me a bit different than a collected detail of information and WHY decisions were made.

That is not normal for him. It's an indication of how bad this situation is on the ground.

[KeithH]

I like this idea.

But badging and enabling students with badges is probably a bridge too far. Professionals I work with forget their badges. I think it’d be unrealistic for elementary schools to be able to find a suitable system.

Now! They could limit it to all peripheral doors require badges and funnel into main secured areas. That is a possibility.

ETA: By funnel I mean have non-badged entrances for students, etc. be main entrances to limit points of entry.

Peripheral doors would still need to be able to be opened from the inside for fire alarms, etc.

I’d also like the front doors or any door vulnerable to motor vehicle assault protected. Best Buy and gun stores have been doing it for years.

[AMC]

My limited understanding is that people who go through doors have reasons why they wait to go through the door until it's time, because that's a good way to get someone to start shooting hostages.

If the averages say they should wait then they should wait. Difficult for us to understand when the average falls on the wrong side but I'd still want the people coming to save my kid to play them.

That may not be what happened here, but IIRC hostage situations that end peacefully are a lot more common than active massacres and that's an average too.

Addressing the last point: active shooters do not transform into hostage situations that can be resolved peacefully. When active attackers barricade themselves in with victims, it is for the purpose of having unrestrained access to those victims without LE or other interference. This is a failure of knowledge and imagination on the part of LE leadership to assume otherwise. This is just me, but with my training and experience I can imagine (and have) disregarding orders of supervisors or managers who were not on scene to do the wrong thing. I can also articulate why I did what I did.

I just watched the news conference with my 18 year old, who's graduating high school in 2 weeks. He's very defensive about LE, being a cops kid, but we had a discussion about what MAY have gone wrong here....and why.

I told him about some of the stuff I talked to our recruits about during their firearms training. I usually at some point would reference the most recent active shooter incident in the news, and ask the recruits what their first thoughts were on hearing about it. Most responses are along the lines of "God that's horrible", or "I feel so bad for those people", or "Its so sad". I would then tell them my thoughts whenever I hear about these things unfolding, which I know many here share: "God....if only I was there."

I was a young rookie cop when the 101 California Active Shooter incident unfolded in my city. I was off, but came in a few hours later and spent several hours shuttling the Specialist Team and SWAT guys back to the station for a Debrief. The hang dog look on all their faces was the same, from the carnage they had seen. One Sgt. Told me "If only one of those folks had a .38 in their desk drawer....."

Two of the Spec Team guys I worked with had taken the elevator up to the floor below the attack. One of the guys told me years later that they had their rifles training on the door as they went up....freaked out about the possibility of the bad guy being right there when the door opened. When it did, and they saw two women laying dead from multiple gunshots, he said it changed instantly. "Then, Al.....then it became a hunt." There was no more fear.....just a cold focused rage. I stood outside that building that night and vowed it would never happen around me. I would never be unprepared to stop some evil maniac. I dunno....maybe that mindset isn't ad common as it used to be.

We expect a lot from cops. I told the recruits that they are expected to have skills and personality traits unlike any other profession. They have to be the cop that sees a kid miss his school bus, and gives him a ride to school. The cop who, learning it's the kids birthday but he isn't having a party cause he's new to the school, makes plans to buy the kid a card and cake, and stop by his house with your squad mates after school. And then be the cop who Flys like the wind to the call of an Active Shooter at that school later that day, runs into that school, and hunts down the motherfucker hurting kids to shoot him in the face. You've gotta be both of those cops. Not many people can be both.....and these days we're only selecting foe the ones who can be officer friendly.

[DocGKR]

AMC--Well said!

[blues]

And if I save the day and survive…….

Some idiot will bitch about it.

Regards

Maybe even in the thread we discuss it in.



Hope that day doesn't come, brother, but if it does, they'd be lucky to have you on site.

[UNM1136]

Addressing the last point: active shooters do not transform into hostage situations that can be resolved peacefully. When active attackers barricade themselves in with victims, it is for the purpose of having unrestrained access to those victims without LE or other interference. This is a failure of knowledge and imagination on the part of LE leadership to assume otherwise. This is just me, but with my training and experience I can imagine (and have) disregarding orders of supervisors or managers who were not on scene to do the wrong thing. I can also articulate why I did what I did.

I just watched the news conference with my 18 year old, who's graduating high school in 2 weeks. He's very defensive about LE, being a cops kid, but we had a discussion about what MAY have gone wrong here....and why.

I told him about some of the stuff I talked to our recruits about during their firearms training. I usually at some point would reference the most recent active shooter incident in the news, and ask the recruits what their first thoughts were on hearing about it. Most responses are along the lines of "God that's horrible", or "I feel so bad for those people", or "Its so sad". I would then tell them my thoughts whenever I hear about these things unfolding, which I know many here share: "God....if only I was there."

I was a young rookie cop when the 101 California Active Shooter incident unfolded in my city. I was off, but came in a few hours later and spent several hours shuttling the Specialist Team and SWAT guys back to the station for a Debrief. The hang dog look on all their faces was the same, from the carnage they had seen. One Sgt. Told me "If only one of those folks had a .38 in their desk drawer....."

Two of the Spec Team guys I worked with had taken the elevator up to the floor below the attack. One of the guys told me years later that they had their rifles training on the door as they went up....freaked out about the possibility of the bad guy being right there when the door opened. When it did, and they saw two women laying dead from multiple gunshots, he said it changed instantly. "Then, Al.....then it became a hunt." There was no more fear.....just a cold focused rage. I stood outside that building that night and vowed it would never happen around me. I would never be unprepared to stop some evil maniac. I dunno....maybe that mindset isn't ad common as it used to be.

We expect a lot from cops. I told the recruits that they are expected to have skills and personality traits unlike any other profession. They have to be the cop that sees a kid miss his school bus, and gives him a ride to school. The cop who, learning it's the kids birthday but he isn't having a party cause he's new to the school, makes plans to buy the kid a card and cake, and stop by his house with your squad mates after school. And then be the cop who Flys like the wind to the call of an Active Shooter at that school later that day, runs into that school, and hunts down the motherfucker hurting kids to shoot him in the face. You've gotta be both of those cops. Not many people can be both.....and these days we're only selecting foe the ones who can be officer friendly.

Quoted because I couldn't like it again. That transformation from fear to rage is necessary, vital, even. Most good cops get their feet wet doing it with resisting and assaulting suspects. I used to hate the adrenaline dump when a shithead lurched toward me while talking shit and not actually doing anything. Looking for an overreaction on your part. It is hard to look tough and project the necessary demeanor when you are writing in your notebook with shaking hands.

And then there is Rodeo Time. Stress innoculation indeed. To make the transition from nothing....to "I need to sort this guy out because he wants to hurt me"... while making good decisions is really, really hard, but necessary.

And I teach my guys that negotiating with a mass murderer in a situation like this is allowing victims that may be saveable to bleed out.

Get in there. Eliminate the threat. Start triage, TECC, and evacuation.

pat

[GJM]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...s-q-a-00035762

‘There’s This Really Consistent Pathway’: How Society Can Stop Mass Shooters Before They Act
Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

[wvincent]

Some thoughts on SROs from an LE trainer I respect:



One area where I somewhat disagree with the thoughts above is I think older / retired cops can be excellent SROs / School security if they were a "meat eater" to begin with. My model is the "blue blazer" security guys hired by the U.S. Marshal's Service for federal courthouses. They are all retired LE who are mature and experienced enough to consider a day when nothing bad happens a "good day" instead of "boring" but also experienced enough to see trouble coming early and be able to handle it accordingly.

So, I've read this multiple times, but I keep coming back to the same questions.
Performance wise, is the best answer the SRO program, retired cops who become "contract deputies" who only work in the school or private security school guardians with limited powers? Or teachers and staff?

My thoughts:?
SRO can be very effective, lot of bang for the buck, but it can also become the "hide a dude program". You know, that guy who will never lead an assault element into the school, but you don't want him behind you cause he'll probably ND a hot one into you leg as you breach, so you send him to the perimeter or the CP to fetch coffee and sharpen pencils for the Command Staff. Super nice guy, all the fellow troops like him and kids and parents and teachers love him, as he's the "nicest cop they ever met". But, from what I've seen and heard, SRO's can get saddled with a lot of distractions, also. Here, teach this class, monitor study hall, make sure no is smoking behind the school gym, counsel these children on the errors of their ways. Oh, and while your at it, make sure you stay current on all your departmental training, don't get behind on your inclusion, EEO, etc training.

Retired cops as "contract deputies"? Already vetted, already have their state cert, they have one job, walking the school beat or watching the CCTV monitors. You tell me that DB or Dobbs or Trooper224 or some of the other select folks on this forum are walking the halls at my granddaughter's school, I'll sleep like a baby at night.


Private security "school guardians"? Lot of vets out there who can shoot, and are used to working a post, but never really wanted to be a cop and all that it entails. Think a gentler version of Triple C or Acadami. The danger I see here is most schools selecting merely on price and not reputation or performance.

Or just arming teachers and support staff? Yeah, if we could just clone breakingtime91, but too much to wish for.

From your experience and perspective, what is the best answer that will be effective and would actually get community buy-in?

[HCM]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...s-q-a-00035762

‘There’s This Really Consistent Pathway’: How Society Can Stop Mass Shooters Before They Act
Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

There's nothing new in this article and nothing in their "profile" is unique to active shooters. If fits people with all sorts of issues.

[0ddl0t]

Addressing the last point: active shooters do not transform into hostage situations that can be resolved peacefully.

24 of the 40 (60%) active shootings in 2020 and 17 of 30 active shootings (57%) in 2019 ended in the arrest/surrender of the perp: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/...020-070121.pdf