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Thread: How proficient were the man killers of old?

  1. #251
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Moon View Post
    Think I've already posted this in the thread but not going back to look - Skeeter Skelton on gunmen of El Paso:

    http://darkcanyon.net/gunmen_of_el_paso.htm

    On point to the thread's original question - probably the key takeaways of the article:
    Once again we see that mindset & tactics wins over equipment alone.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  2. #252
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    Thanks for that, I had never read it.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Once again we see that mindset & tactics wins over equipment alone.
    A more eloguent way of saying what I've heard as: Any gun will do if you will do.

    Dave

  4. #254
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    they would not have the ammo to train with now...…..god the good old days when there were 1ooos of rounds at the range.

  5. #255
    As several have stated, technical proficiency is only one aspect of the formula. This thread prompted me to go back and look over a few references. Depending on how far one goes back, pure shooting ability is not always at the top of the list. There were a number of “fights” which were ambushes/assassinations. It is also clear from some accounts that long guns were involved. Commodore Perry used a rifle to shoot and kill four opponents in and around a house while he was close outside. I’m reminded of the 1986 FBI shootings in Miami-don’t rely on a handgun against a rifle.
    Frank Hamer had, along with others, a semiauto rifle when he participated in the shooting of Bonnie and Clyde. Going the other way, we have accounts of the early Texas Rangers engaging Indians at 100 yards or so with their Walker Colts.
    One suggestion from an acquaintance of mine who has been in several lethal encounters, is to kit up with “Sim” guns, and see how it goes. I recall instances at GUNSITE where I learned from failures of attention-don’t get into a car without looking in it first, for example. Cirillo once famously did not follow the outlined path on an IPSC field course, and shot targets from a ravine, from the side, etc.. I think some of the fighters of old wouldn’t wait for the buzzer, so to speak.
    And nowadays, as DB pointed out, there is a lot more to consider especially legally. I’m thankful my youngest got a FoF session where she was instructed of to do a house search after hearing a break in, simulate a 911 call and respond with fire after the knife wielding assailant entered the room.
    As Cooper again noted, it’s difficult, perhaps impossible, for some to go from peaceful citizen to dispensing lethal force.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Moon View Post
    Think I've already posted this in the thread but not going back to look - Skeeter Skelton on gunmen of El Paso:

    http://darkcanyon.net/gunmen_of_el_paso.htm

    On point to the thread's original question - probably the key takeaways of the article:
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Once again we see that mindset & tactics wins over equipment alone.
    I posted that back in post 26 of this thread..

    After a mix of usual PF good info and Fudd lore uncharacteristic of PF thread has come full circle.

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    I posted that back in post 26 of this thread..

    After a mix of usual PF good info and Fudd lore uncharacteristic of PF thread has come full circle.
    So, wait, is it good info or Fudd lore :-P

    Swear I've posted it at P-F before too. Glad to see Dark Canyon is back up and running in any case. It was a pain when you had to go to the Wayback archive to get to the Skeeter articles.
    no one sees what's written on the spine of his own autobiography.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    After a mix of usual PF good info and Fudd lore uncharacteristic of PF thread has come full circle.
    Since I'm not one of the 'cool kids' I suspect I'm guilty of the "Fudd lore", what ever that is.

    Dang I hate all these abbreviations, or what ever they're called. LOL

    Dave

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    Since I'm not one of the 'cool kids' I suspect I'm guilty of the "Fudd lore", what ever that is.

    Dang I hate all these abbreviations, or what ever they're called. LOL

    Dave
    Fudd lore is the bad info passed down in gun shops ranges etc by people who don’t know any better. Things like:

    “You don’t have to aim a shotgun”
    “Just racking a shotgun will scare off anyone”
    “One shot one kill”
    “French rifles - only dropped once”

    Etc

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    Since I'm not one of the 'cool kids' I suspect I'm guilty of the "Fudd lore", what ever that is.

    Dang I hate all these abbreviations, or what ever they're called. LOL

    Dave
    Elmer Fudd = A 'Fudd' = Fuddlore

    Elmer gets a lot of unnecessary hate. Bugs was a sneaky son of a bitch.

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