@HCM
We can agree to disagree, and I have absolutely no issue with that...but whether the person is, or was, an "agitator", for which there is no standard definition, in itself would not dictate whether an action taken against the person was justified or not. Just as whether George Floyd was guilty of a violation of law or not, would not justify certain actions being taken once he was in custody.
It's a matter of degree...and I realize it's open to interpretation and review. And should be.
There's nothing civil about this war.
Do you think he's subtle enough? ;-)Originally Posted by Baldanders
" La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
"There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib
So I finally watched the video of the 75 y/o who got pushed. My take as a Mobile Field Force trained officer and sergeant with little direct experience with riots but plenty of experience with protests is as follows:
1) If he was an agitator, shoving him was probably not the best move. Raking him to the second row to an arrest squad would be what I would order.
2) The first line did exactly what I would want them to do. Push forward to give the second row a safe operating space. I see they were clashing with another agitator shortly thereafter.
3) The guy was *not* unattended. Officers behind the front line took action, got medical aid, etc.
4) I bet nothing is found to be outside of policy or law.
5) The notion the 50 guys who resigned in protest are wrong is further then I will go by quite a ways.
On a personal note, after over a decade of being on our team that includes MFF functions, missing person searches, evacuations, NBC spill response, and basically any squad level response that's not SWAT's purview I'm resigning after this current mess calms down. I am not alone. I see very few officers with more then 2-3 years on with any desire to get on the response group and see a lot of experienced officers announcing they are leaving. Our mayor has been informed of this and that his comments were part of the decision making process. It is now a high risk/low reward position and the majority of the risk is from media outrage and the brass reacting to it. I will continue to police my assigned district as always. I will no longer be the guy responding when the world sets fire. I am passed my physical prime, I do not want my name in the papers again, and nobody at policy levels gives two shits what those of us leaving have to say. Fix it yourselves.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
I've seen discussion of the amount of officers quitting on other boards. It should be sobering but sadly it's largely applauded due to groupthink. I'm just wondering if it's something the media will report on at some point.
The two officers were arrested for an assault charge. The local DA is on WNY cable explaining why it had to be done.
Just FYI.
Locally we're seeing an investigation of batons used sideways to push a crowd back (as trained) to give medics room to work and of pepper-balling individuals throwing bottles at officers.I've seen discussion of the amount of officers quitting on other boards. It should be sobering but sadly it's largely applauded due to groupthink. I'm just wondering if it's something the media will report on at some point.
We're also throwing the same officers into the grinder over and over again and expecting them to perform the same as they would rested.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Brown is not a loud and proud supporter of law enforcement, and has had a somewhat tumultuous relationship with BPD over the years. The fact that he would make such a statement is incredibly interesting to me.
Related: I just got back from the courthouse where the officers were arraigned. There was a great turnout of several hundred members from multiple agencies to support the guys.
Though the specific term "agitator" may not have a standard legal definition, the subject's actions and response to police prior to any physical contact absolutely come in to play when determining whether the action was justified or not.
But you know that.
The Floyd comparison is some false equivalency bullshit.
But you know that too.
It has gotten little attention but at least part of why the 50 resigned from the ERT is their union, which self funds legal defense had stated they would not be funding legal defense for actions arising out of ERT activities during the civil unrest. Apparently the union followed through on that in the instant case so the resignations are as much self preservation as solidarity.
There were probably better ways for the cops to get him out of the way. So much here, though.
An “old man.” Younger than Biden.
He refused to social distance from the cops. Attempted murder of the cops’ grandparents?
Black mayor characterizes peaceful white protestor as an “agitator.” Old white lives matter? Except for the cops’ grandparents?
Will need some help from the medics and cops with this one. The old man managed to hold onto his cell phone after his head was jolted sufficiently from hitting the pavement as to cause him to bleed from the ear.
I'm not saying what was or wasn't the case here. I've seen a guy who was declared dead by medics start jacking off a bit later (massive head and spinal trauma, died for real shortly after). However protesters are trained to flop like soccer players. To scream and cry in pain. To act like they are being injured when they are moved or removed from the restraints they use to tie themselves together to block roadways, etc. This guy has a long history of protest, apparently. It's naive to think he's not aware of that.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
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