Shooting of jogger in GA

[SWAT Lt.]

If the need for deadly force arises while using reasonable force to effectuate an arrest (the arrestee attacks the person making the lawful arrest and puts them in reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury), why wouldn't a traditional self-defense justification work for the use of deadly force? The force isn't being used to effectuate the arrest, but the need for deadly force arose in the course of a lawful arrest.

ETA: I'm not saying that's what happened in this case. There isn't enough information available to make that determination yet.

I understand and I agree about the lack of available information. A self-defense claim may certainly apply given the scenario you suggest and may be what is ultimately decided to have occurred in the GA case we have been discussing. The letter from the prosecutor seems to give some further insight into the details and his views on the matter.

My citation of KRS was in response to the statement “Find a state where you cannot use reasonable/necessary force to make a citizen's arrest of a felon whose crime you witnessed”, not the specific incident in GA. I was pointing out that deadly force may not be used in making an arrest in KY, except by peace officers under very specific circumstances, no matter whether the citizen making the arrest felt it was reasonable and/or necessary to do so. The statement was later clarified to say that it meant reasonable/necessary force, excluding deadly force.

Although I tend to agree with the clarified statement, I strongly feel is best to call the police, be a good witness, and let them handle it most of the time. Felony or not. Especially for property crimes. That way there is much less risk to one’s health, freedom and finances should things go sideways.

[0ddl0t]

I'd be real careful about the trespassing part. Trespass is typically a misdemeanor only.

You're right and it looks like the ex-cop would need to prove criminal intent for burglary to apply in Georgia. The decedent's criminal history & unusual "jogging" attire lend some credence to criminal intent, but alone they're unlikely to be enough.

[Totem Polar]

Not to distract from the subject at hand, but this reminds me of a “win” mentioned here. See post 5 in this thread. Well done, sir!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....493&viewfull=1

It's against state and federal law to tamper with or remove emissions equipment from a motor vehicle operated on a highway, and even off highway vehicles in some cases...

I arrested a guy disorderly conduct for coal rolling some bicyclist. He had a duramax and the missing DEF tank was pretty obvious. Just because he pissed me off, I reported him to the EPA. They hit him with over $50K in civil fines and made him reinstall the emissions equipment or forfeit the truck. That had to be factory new equipment, and that was somewhere around $15K. That's a special case, but sometimes we can all learn from the stupidity of others.

And that is one of the posts I remember, absolutely.

[Wingate's Hairbrush]

For fuck's sake...

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map/by-state

Alas, the Southern Poverty Law Center, which had noble mission at the get-go, has become a bit of a hate group themselves.

[blues]

Alas, the Southern Poverty Law Center, which had noble mission at the get-go, has become a bit of a hate group themselves.

That's a separate matter...but I was trying to illustrate that no state is without blame...without using too broad a hair brush.

[Wingate's Hairbrush]

That's a separate matter...but I was trying to illustrate that no state is without blame...without using too broad a hair brush.

Got it and agreed, and SPLC is still a resource, faults besides.

[Joe in PNG]

A few points to consider, maybe include in a thread regarding arrests by civilians.

1. Is the arrest worth killing for?

2. Is the arrest worth dying for?

A mistake some people make when initiating action is presuming their action will produce intended results. Call that "getting in at the ground floor". Starting at the bottom of possible escalation can cause tunnel vision regarding other outcomes. Instead, start at the top floor, ask yourself do I want to kill that person or get killed? Make that decision first, before acting.

3. Is the arrest worth paying custom 1911 money to a lawyer on a daily basis for the next few months?

[WobblyPossum]

You're right and it looks like the ex-cop would need to prove criminal intent for burglary to apply in Georgia. The decedent's criminal history & unusual "jogging" attire lend some credence to criminal intent, but alone they're unlikely to be enough.

The decedent’s prior criminal history should have no bearing on this case unless the armed guys knew about it before they went out to confront him. They’re supposed to be judged based on what they knew at the time of the incident, not things that come out after the fact, just like with any other use of force incident. I’m not sure what’s unusual about the decedent’s jogging attire. He’s wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and what look to be sneakers in the video.

[vcdgrips]

In my opinion, that “recusal letter” was anything but. It was a position paper drafted knowing that it was going to get out into the public eye.

If it was merely some kind of internal document there would be no need for it to set forth the experience level of the principals involved. It was drafted and released with a definite agenda.


Regarding the legal conclusions reached therein, without seeing the case file which presumably has witness statements, video(s) of the incident, narrative reports, criminal histories of all parties involved, the employment files of the investigator (s) and alleged perpetrators at least with regard to bias/lack of candor while on the job (Giglio material) and perhaps GPS data of off phones and/or vehicles (to the extent these exist) overlapping the timeframes of the incident and priors ones where the deceased was said to be in the area, all of us here don’t know what we don’t know.

[vcdgrips]

Oddlot:

The silence with which your have not responded when asked to provide information outlining your training/education/experience in this and other threads given the breadth and depth of your legal and medical pronouncements is deafening.


Given the continued factual and legal errors you have made in this thread alone...why are you still talking?