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Thread: Re-Thinking Revolver Carry-Particularly At Night

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    Recently, I was with some clients at a somewhat secluded location. I was carrying a Ruger GP100, with a Comp III speedloader in a belt pouch and a Speed Strip with 6 more rounds for reloads. Entering the development, there was an adjacent lot with chain-link fencing, and numerous dogs, which sounded like larger dogs.

    While the fencing apparently was secure (ore the dogs otherwise constrained), it gave me pause for thought: If accosted by a pack of dogs, would a revolver, especially at night, provide adequate protection? My thought went to DocGKR's fairly recent post where in a somewhat similar situation (albeit facing potentially feral teens, not dogs-he's the one who had the dog), he concluded "No" and switched to a larger-capacity semi-auto for such carry.

    I have to agree. While I did so intellectually anyhow when he posted his previous thread, being placed is a similar situation was a bit of an eye-opener for me "heartwise." While I'm reasonably comfortable with my skills with a revolver, and with my GP100 specifically, and the loads I was carrying (Remington Golden Saber .38 Special 125gr +P), the combination of night shooting, limited capacity, and a more skill-intensive/mechanically demanding reload I think mitigate against a revolver. As the good Doc concluded, after evaluating the situation and the potential of a wild dog pack attack, I think I would have been better served with a more naturally indexing, higher capacity semi-automatic-probably one of my Glocks (G17, G19, GG21, G34).

    While I certainly don't plan on eliminating revolvers from use in carry and/or competition, I think I will be much more judicious in their selection for outside-the-home self-defense due to some of their intrinsic limitations-I've concluded that a (quality) semi-auto is simply a more judicious choice, both generally and situationally.

    Best, Jon
    Jon, kudos to you for re-evaluating. A quality, proven auto with greater on-board ammo capacity, maybe with a WML and easily worked remote switch, etc, might reduce your workload during outlier events (multiple threats, limited visibility, one arm not available for the fight, etc) better than the GP-100 and still be fine for more likely scenarios. Any of your aforementioned Glocks should serve well.

    I started out in the 1970s with an S&W M28 Highway Patrolman 6" (loaded with 140 gr JHP .357s) in a shoulder holster as a concealed carry gun, and now carry a G19 IWB in a Raven Phantom. Along the way re-evaluations took me through .41 Mag revolvers, to various 1911s, to various double stack autos. If I were going to be out after dark now (extremely rare for me nowadays), I'd carry a G34 (or G19) with a Surefire X200/300 and DG-11 switch. Fortunately I have a Raven Light-compatible Phantom to fit these combinations on-hand, having carried them several years back.

  2. #12
    Of course we can get by with a revolver as many of us have done and still do at times. And of course the tools have evolved and gotten better over the years in weapons just as they have in meds and other fields of human endeavor. This thread reminds me of the old Jeff Cooper story where he was trying to reload a Colt Single Action Army on Guadalcanal at night and found it less than optimal. (I think he wrote he had carried a personal SAA on the advice received in a letter from a certain gun writer from Idaho.)

    McBride wrote the same about why revolvers were less than great in the trenches at night in a WWI trench raid scenario. McBride wrote in A Rifleman Went To War that the ease of reloading a M1911 at night was one of its chief advantage in a military situation, IIRC. Frank Hamer was successfully using/carrying Colt SAA's long after McBride's experiences, as were a number of wise old Texas Ranger types, but that doesn't mean they were the best tools available -- my guess is just that they worked well enough for them and they were probably used to them.

  3. #13
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    While I (and others) could probably get by with a decent revolver, after being in the potential situation (involving large, fast-moving wild/feral dogs at night, with limited ambient light) I've concluded a quality semi-auto optimizes my chances of not only getting by, but in getting by with a lower chance of being chewed on in the process. Both the inherently greater number of on-board cartridges, combined with a much more ergonomic reloading sequence (and with higher numbers of cartridges instantly on tap with a semi-auto versus revolver reload) are huge factors mitigating for the semi-auto in the situation(s) I'm posing.

    Recently, while on a camping trip with friends, in an area with black/brown bears not infrequently spotted, I chose to carry my .45 ACP Glock G21, with Remington Golden Saber 230 gr standard-pressure cartridges. In that we were doing hiking and mountain climbing during the trip, I thought that the G21 made eminent sense, from platform weight, cartridge, overall performance covering both potential human and animal threats and weather imperviousness standpoints.

    Best, Jon

  4. #14
    New Member BLR's Avatar
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    Not gonna lie, I spent the last couple weeks very seriously considering my 1911 fixation due to it's low-ish capacity.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtexan View Post
    Jon, kudos to you for re-evaluating. A quality, proven auto with greater on-board ammo capacity, maybe with a WML and easily worked remote switch, etc, might reduce your workload during outlier events (multiple threats, limited visibility, one arm not available for the fight, etc) better than the GP-100 and still be fine for more likely scenarios. Any of your aforementioned Glocks should serve well.

    I started out in the 1970s with an S&W M28 Highway Patrolman 6" (loaded with 140 gr JHP .357s) in a shoulder holster as a concealed carry gun, and now carry a G19 IWB in a Raven Phantom. Along the way re-evaluations took me through .41 Mag revolvers, to various 1911s, to various double stack autos. If I were going to be out after dark now (extremely rare for me nowadays), I'd carry a G34 (or G19) with a Surefire X200/300 and DG-11 switch. Fortunately I have a Raven Light-compatible Phantom to fit these combinations on-hand, having carried them several years back.
    Kindred spirit. When I got my first CCW license in 1981 I carried IWB a 6" S&W Model 57. It was that or a K-38. Not long later I got into 1911s but today its Glock 9mms. Best regards.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtmtnbiker98 View Post
    Makes you wonder how "they" survived all those years prior to the "Wonder 9."
    Equally important, you wonder how all those folks still using revolvers today manage to survive without any real problems.
    "PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"

  7. #17
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911guy View Post
    Not gonna lie, I spent the last couple weeks very seriously considering my 1911 fixation due to it's low-ish capacity.
    Bill, despite (generally, usually, most of the time) 1911s having a 6-8 (plus one in the chamber) capacity, I'd still feel better served with one in my sceario than with a revolver, given the speedier, more ergonomic magazine ejection and reloading process. Similarly (and even more so) with my .40 FN/Browning Hi Power, with it's 10+1 capacity.

    However, when you throw in periods of inclement weather/little relubrication opportunity, things speedily turn things into a polymer pistol type of situation...The generally higher capacity of the polymer pistols most of us would consider (Glock, HK, Smith & Wesson et al is a further fillip enhancing their desirability.

    Best, Jon

  8. #18
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    Equally important, you wonder how all those folks still using revolvers today manage to survive without any real problems.
    Probably because "problems" tend to devolve around home defense and/or urban carry, where statistically situations tend to be resolved with the expenditure of 0-3 rounds. Human assailants tend to choose unprotected/less protected targets; just by being armed per se, and maintaining appropriate situational awareness/situational readiness can mitigate against being perceived as an acceptable/vulnerable target. These "problems" also devolve around human encounters-I'm positing a human versus dogpack scenario; I further think that DocGKR successfully developed the primacy of semi-auto versus revolver for multiple human assailant situations.

    I'm not trying to generally denigrate quality revolvers and/or users well versed in the operation and capabilities (and restrictions) inherent to revolvers. What I'm suggesting is that it might be ideal to carefully assess potential/likely scenarios in conjunction with one's carry weapon of choice, and that choice may (or should) be somewhat driven by the analysis. I have the luxury of having multiple platforms, in multiple chamberings at my disposal. I'm suggesting that while the owner of, say, a Ruger Vaquero single-action revolver (or, for that matter, by extension any "more modern" double-action revolver) is hardly rendered defenseless, he may need to be more judicious regarding when and where he goes to (or places himself in) certain locations at certain times to improve his potential survivability (or minimize potential threat exposure/injury).

    I'm suggesting that making appropriate judicious platform choices potentially expands one's options (or de-constrains them).

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 10-07-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    Equally important, you wonder how all those folks still using revolvers today manage to survive without any real problems.
    Use of the word "all" implies a lot of facts not in evidence. Are you saying everyone who has ever carried a revolver "survive(d) without any real problems" while doing so?

    If not, then it seems to me that Jon and some others have simply come to the conclusion that for them the costs involved with carrying a different gun outweigh the stakes at risk by carrying the revo. You know, like we've debated the last twenty times this issue has come up.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    Equally important, you wonder how all those folks still using revolvers today manage to survive without any real problems.
    See my earlier post.
    #RESIST

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