The Tactical Reload

[ToddG]

What I brought up was use of the Tac Load as an option.

I don't think anyone has disagreed with the practice of topping off the gun before reholstering.

If you are that outlier who has worked through the out of battery reload and are able to perform more manipulations faster than most can perform less and reacquire your grip consistently, then it is a better option FOR YOU to go ahead and run it dry. For others, I like the idea of the solution with less manipulations, as I now have a cleaner solution with less chance to mess up and a fully functional gun in the process. Every situation will be unique, and is full of decision making during the fight.

You do it and teach it differently than me, that's fine. But suggesting that I'm some kind of "outlier" is silly. Performing a slidelock reload isn't complicated. Performing a slidelock reload requires exactly one small additional action compared to an in-battery reload. Reacquiring a proper grip on the pistol after a slidelock reload isn't any harder than after an in-battery or "tactical" reload.

I don't disagree one bit with the proposition that an in-battery reload is, if time & circumstances allow, a valid option. But just like a tac load, it's a reload you perform when you want to, when you think the situation is appropriate. By definition it is something you do when you have time to do something other than shoot. In class, I refer to both tac/retention reloads and in-battery reloads as voluntary reloads. You do them because you choose to, because you think you have the time and safety to do so. A slidelock reload is an involuntary reload, something you need to be able to do as quickly and efficiently as possible because you probably don't have time and safety on your side.

The example Chuck gave, above, is a great one on so many levels. When he performed the reload, Soulis was not trading shots but rather he was behind cover and so was his adversary. Luckily, instead of performing the traditional "lull-mandated tactical reload" he just did a speed reload which could very well have been the difference between life and death since his opponent intended to have a shorter "lull" than Soulis did. Note that when Soulis was out in the open shooting at an escaping Palmer, he emptied his gun instead of performing a reload. Why? He was actively engaging a target and put his focus on shooting, not round counting.

[Dagga Boy]

I never understood the "put the partial magazine in your pocket" thought process. As Sean outlined, I use my least accessible magazine to replace the partially expended one. The partial mag goes in my least accessible magazine pouch. If the rationale behind holding onto the magazine is that I may need the ammo later, I am going to go looking for that ammo in the places where I keep magazines full of ammo, not my pocket. Just my $.02.

This is really a issue where you have to look at who your target training group is. I trained cops for most of my adult life. Take a look at L/E mag pouches when you see cops working. Not cops at class.....cops working. The ones with tons of crap around their mag pouches, crap attached to the pouch flaps, weird placement of the pouches, pouches being in totally different places when off duty or in plain clothes, pouches that don't fit their mags properly, etc. They will be fighting to put a mag back in that pouch, especially post shooting. We all have this idea of squared away pipe hitters rolling their custom Raven Gear on an Ares Belt, but that is not the norm. Even with good gear, you are trying to put a precision fit item into a precision fit pouch and often without the benefit of your eyes. Look at the problem folks have just holstering post shooting with far more repetition. I teach a pocket or dump pouch as what I use with just shoving the mag in a waistband as another solid option. Obviously, running combat gear is different, with different TTP's that should be addressed with a logical solution.

On the concept of preserving mags IF you can. Semi auto firearms need them to function properly. They are often a source of where a problem is that has caused a malfunction. With this in mind, I like the idea of having them around IF I can. Keep in mind, that most LEO's only carry two spare mags. Most carrying concealed are only carrying one. It is good to maybe keep these critical pieces of gear around. You also never know "how bad things are going to be". We had one officer go through his entire load out for his M-16 during an incident and was in a very good position but, alone. He had ammunition dumped over a fence for him to load......that ammo was coming in boxes, not magazines and he had to hand load those mags....which he had (before I hear the "if you can't hit a guy with 120 rounds, you suck"...he did a great job and saved lives and didn't suck on that incident). Also, think about some school resource officer with an active shooter, single officer or CHL person caught in an active shooter event, or dealing with a pack of angry motorcyclists. You may need every round you have. N. Hollywood was the event that changed a lot for L/E when people saw first hand what the problem is with taking pistols to rifle fights (which is the norm for L/E). We had one shooting where one of my guys ended up having to do a vehicle takedown after involvement in a very intense gunfight with another suspect (luckily the guy left in the car was already dead with a head shot from the initial volley of rounds). He performed on speed reload and one tactical. He told me first hand shortly after the event that he felt much better about doing that takedown with a full mag in his gun and at least a few rounds in the mag in his pocket. That is an incident, and the one with my partner and I being surrounded by the angry mob after a shooting that really anchored for me why that fight is not done.

Again, if you have different TTP's...great. I was asked why I train people on the Tac-load versus the Combat Focus method of not training them. The reason we do is we have seen positives from the practice.

[Dagga Boy]

Sorry Todd, I was typing at the same time. I teach it the same as you in class. Two of the reloads are when you want to (and because it is voluntary, you have a couple of options), and one is when you have to get the gun working again. Where and how the gear goes back together is not something I get horribly wrapped around the axle because it tends to be more individual needs specific.

Todd.......this whole forum is an outlier of the shooting world. I think if we took a poll of those of us who have trained a ton of people who do not want to be at training or are in an academy or basic type of training, most will agree that the out of battery speed load is something that gets jacked up a lot. I have also seen a bunch of issues with this when done during a fight.

[ToddG]

Sorry Todd, I was typing at the same time. I teach it the same as you in class. Two of the reloads are when you want to (and because it is voluntary, you have a couple of options), and one is when you have to get the gun working again.

I just object to the concept of calling a slidelock reload a shooter-induced malfunction. There are plenty of times when the shooter may have been doing the exact right thing and it resulted in an empty gun.

Todd.......this whole forum is an outlier of the shooting world. I think if we took a poll of those of us who have trained a ton of people who do not want to be at training or are in an academy or basic type of training, most will agree that the out of battery speed load is something that gets jacked up a lot. I have also seen a bunch of issues with this when done during a fight.

So do you teach reloads differently to open enrollment students who do want to be at training and will practice?

The tone of your posts did not convey, at least to me, that you were only addressing LCD shooters. Even if that is the case, teaching multiple situationally dependent reload techniques to such people seems like it would create more problems than it solves. Perhaps if all that time and effort was spent teaching fewer techniques they'd be able to perform those techniques more easily.

And I still don't get what's so complicated about dropping a slide. If those officers struggled to load their empty guns then serious remediation was necessary. Back in the late 90's I taught a bunch of CCW students and even with just a few hours of classroom discussion and a single hour on the range every single one of them was capable of taking a gun from "unloaded" to "loaded."

[GJM]

I just object to the concept of calling a slidelock reload a shooter-induced malfunction.

I think it originated at Gunsite. Beer buying offense.

[ToddG]

I think it originated at Gunsite. Beer buying offense.

That's just idiotic. Why would I punish someone for doing something we know happens all the time in real fights, especially when everyone seems to be in agreement that there are conditions in which it is ok given the other limited options available? Why teach someone that a common, normal, sometimes preferred action is bad? The last thing someone needs in the middle of a fight is a mental image of an old instructor yelling "WRONG!" when he's not actually done anything wrong.

[Tamara]

Is that encryption, or Klingon..........I can't read half the stuff on this site anymore.

"NM. I are 'tard." = "Never mind. I am retarded." = "I read your comment and posted a response, and then re-read your comment and realized my response was directed at something you had not actually said."

(I will say that I can never read the word "lull" without hearing it in a South African accent in my head. )

[GJM]

That's just idiotic. Why would I punish someone for doing something we know happens all the time in real fights, especially when everyone seems to be in agreement that there are conditions in which it is ok given the other limited options available? Why teach someone that a common, normal, sometimes preferred action is bad? The last thing someone needs in the middle of a fight is a mental image of an old instructor yelling "WRONG!" when he's not actually done anything wrong.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger -- I didn't say it made sense.

A mutual friend from GA is there right now, escorting his daughter through 250, and might have an update on whether this is current doctrine.

[LSP972]

(I will say that I can never read the word "lull" without hearing it in a South African accent in my head. )

I was thinking the exact same thing... "The great, winged bird!"

.

[Dagga Boy]

I wasn't taught the shooter induced malfunction from anyone...it just made sense. Todd, I am sorry you object, but what do we call it when the cycle of operation is stopped? Is the pistol functional in the condition it is in? Is it mechanically broken or did the shooter do something to make it happen? The other reloads we teach start with a mag in the hand before the mag release is activated. Not so in this one. In a fight, when people are generally not counting their rounds, do they instantly know why their gun stopped working? There is a huge difference in the "time" of fixing a pistol at slide lock when you don't know it is going to happen. Even when you do, like shooting a FAST drill, do people jack up that portion of the test. Watch "regular" folks train and see what happens when they forgot to load the mag in their gun or it goes to slide lock when they don't expect it, and see how fast their reaction is to fix it.

If you really want to train this, have other people load your mags for you to induce slide lock when not expected.

Difference in training. I train it the same to everyone. People do not come to us to get to be a GM in USPSA. They come to us for use of deadly force used in the U.S. It's our lane, and we don't pretend otherwise. Our "doctrine" comes from our experience that may be different from others.....but it is actual experience and not theory based. Edited to add-I cannot think of a single instance where having a non-functional firearm in my hand in a fight is a "preferred" situation...I will add this to my list of things "Todd and I respectfully disagree on".

We don't teach the out of battery speed reload as being "wrong", we are just honest about having a non-functioning pistol in your hand in the middle of fight isn't optimal and it needs to get quickly diagnosed and fixed. Just like we don't teach that having a bad guy not fall down immediately when hit is wrong. We teach that having them not fall down immediately isn't optimal and you need to come up with a solution to get it fixed. Problem solving....the gun in your hand being non-functional in a fight is a problem. Part of why I modified the LAPD SWAT qual to force a slide lock empty gun on one of the phases is to force it to be stressful......which included having someone behind you screaming at you and doing it in a group environment to force the pressure of "keeping up". None of my people will have an image of me yelling "wrong", they should have an image of yelling "fix it".

I find it kind of nice that many folks are now teaching the "reload" as a malfunction clearance. Kind of works right in to something I have been doing for a long time.

I have no business working out of my lane. In the match I shot a few weeks ago I tried to game a reload. I was thinking "hey, its a game, so I am going to try that thing Todd does where my thumb is waiting on top of my slide release to go faster". It went really good, and was fast and super smooth.........until the "click" (this was the first time I ever remember having this situation). Does this mean its "bad"...nope. It's not "wrong", its different and may work for some as an option. It means that I am one of those troglodytes that should be sticking with stuff that requires a little less grace, and staying consistent.