IDPA is really, really just a game now

[NETim]

It'd get in the way of the Redhawk in .44 Magnum, which is a much more Dakota-acceptable choice.

Absolutely!

[Mr_White]

So, use of cover...are not defensive skills?

Other people already addressed the other ones.

I'd like to add that the articles of material I've seen treated as 'cover' in IDPA competition are normally concealment rather than cover since they will not normally stop even pistol bullets (plastic barrels, thin weak walls/barriers, etc.)

Doesn't it concern you that this will lead to failure to correctly recognize potential articles of cover in real life, and IDPA Dude will take 'cover' behind the Hostess endcap at the mini mart? Then he will get hisself shot in the streets. Not tactical, not tactical at all. 25ACP > Ding Dongs

[LOKNLOD]

I do not know if this was part of the rationale, but in the past, objections have been made re using hard cover or non-threat targets for this type of set up in that it gives an advantage to taller shooters who just shoot over the obstacles.

So you're saying Caleb may have been the only one who noticed this problem?

[ToddG]

I'd like to add that the articles of material I've seen treated as 'cover' in IDPA competition are normally concealment rather than cover since they will not normally stop even pistol bullets (plastic barrels, thin weak walls/barriers, etc.)

Apart from my general attitude toward bullet-stopping cover in the modern world (to whit: there isn't much), I have to sympathize with IDPA on this one. Frank Glover (of Carolina Cup fame) is the only guy I know who routinely has a rule that "hard cover is defined as things I can't stop your bullet from penetrating through."

Setting up a system for differentiating the shooter's point of cover between ballistic and non-ballistic would be incredibly complicated, especially if you wanted to achieve the goal of identifying cover properly instead of just saying "blue walls are cover, red walls are concealment."

25ACP > Ding Dongs

Referring back to Frank Glover, he's had stages before that were set up like a 7-11 with real shelves piled with real products like loaves of bread, etc. You'd be surprised just how well some of those things can deflect 9mm and .45 rounds. Heck, look at all the guys whose AK mags have stopped 5.56 bullets...

I'd be genuinely interested to see how many Ding Dongs it would take to stop a typical .25 ACP round. You wouldn't even have to wear a wig when you filmed it, Gabe. (though knowing you, you probably still would)

[Josh Runkle]

So, use of cover and drawing from concealment, moving while shooting, entering through a door, and reloading quickly and behind cover are not defensive skills?

Those are all defensive to me. I think it's wrong to suggest that IDPA doesn't teach defensive fundamentals.

If this is about a stupid COF, I will agree with you, but to dismiss IDPA as useless for learning defensive pistol operations because of a badly designed COF is silly.

CC

Well, everything I've learned about one-man defensive scenarios includes leaving ASAP, and if a new area were to be explored to take down a bad guy, it's now offensive, not defensive. Regardless, let's say it's "justifiable" offensive behavior to protect the lives of others. Still, moving around corners includes things like "cutting the pie" as slowly as possible. Does IDPA reinforce any of these defensive skills? Or is it in fact a fun game that falsely inflates the confidence in false skill sets for the defensive-minded person?

[jetfire]

So you're saying Caleb may have been the only one who noticed this problem?

Lol, but you shot the stage seated which for the most part negates a lot of height differences.

[NEPAKevin]

So you're saying Caleb may have been the only one who noticed this problem?

... and Kitty. But seriously, part of running a match is trying to accommodate as many of your customers as you can.

[jetfire]

Apart from my general attitude toward bullet-stopping cover in the modern world (to whit: there isn't much), I have to sympathize with IDPA on this one. Frank Glover (of Carolina Cup fame) is the only guy I know who routinely has a rule that "hard cover is defined as things I can't stop your bullet from penetrating through."

Setting up a system for differentiating the shooter's point of cover between ballistic and non-ballistic would be incredibly complicated, especially if you wanted to achieve the goal of identifying cover properly instead of just saying "blue walls are cover, red walls are concealment."



Referring back to Frank Glover, he's had stages before that were set up like a 7-11 with real shelves piled with real products like loaves of bread, etc. You'd be surprised just how well some of those things can deflect 9mm and .45 rounds. Heck, look at all the guys whose AK mags have stopped 5.56 bullets...

I'd be genuinely interested to see how many Ding Dongs it would take to stop a typical .25 ACP round. You wouldn't even have to wear a wig when you filmed it, Gabe. (though knowing you, you probably still would)

There was a stage at last year's nationals on Frank's range that had targets situated in natural cover among the trees. Those trees were freaking bullet eating machines, it was amazing how many FTNs and mikes got handed out on that stage.

[ToddG]

Still, moving around corners includes things like "cutting the pie" as slowly as possible.

I'd disagree with that description. There are circumstances in which I wouldn't be pieing the corner. Even when I do pie a corner, I don't do it as slowly as possible... I do it as quickly as possible. That may be slow or fast depending on multiple factors but I'm still always doing it as fast as I can see what I need to see.

Lol, but you shot the stage seated which for the most part negates a lot of height differences.

You keep telling yourself that...

[GJM]

I am surprised that nobody has yet mentioned what I believe is far and away the single best thing IDPA has going for it -- the 50% off Safariland card you get by joining.