CC -- that's a lovely strawman you built, but no one in this thread has said "IDPA serves no benefit."
This discussion is about the use of humanoid targets -- ones that are even more realistic looking than normal IDPA targets -- as score-neutral "bystanders" that you were not just allowed to shoot indiscriminately but were actually encouraged to shoot by the stage design.
"IDPA teaches people to shoot better" is a complete non-sequitur.
For my part at least, my biggest issue is that it wasn't necessary. The stage could have just as easily been written as an empty rodeo, and the vision barriers made square pieces of cardboard to simulate empty seats.Originally Posted by ToddG
Now, I don't know the stage designers, so I can't speak for their minds. However, I'd postulate that when this stage was written up, the vision barriers seemed like a good idea, because it would force people to think with the gun in their hand and that people would be shifting around in the seat (you shot from a chair) trying to find the best angle. The problem is that the second you tell people "it's a no penalty vision barrier" we're just going to shoot right through it, because there's no penalty for doing that and it's faster.
So, use of cover and drawing from concealment, moving while shooting, entering through a door, and reloading quickly and behind cover are not defensive skills?
Those are all defensive to me. I think it's wrong to suggest that IDPA doesn't teach defensive fundamentals.
If this is about a stupid COF, I will agree with you, but to dismiss IDPA as useless for learning defensive pistol operations because of a badly designed COF is silly.
CC
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
I do not know if this was part of the rationale, but in the past, objections have been made re using hard cover or non-threat targets for this type of set up in that it gives an advantage to taller shooters who just shoot over the obstacles.
"You can't win a war with choirboys. " Mad Mike Hoare
Literally no one but you is saying that. That's certainly not what I said. Or Todd. Or anyone.
If you keep score, it's a game. IDPA has alwasy been a game. The particiapnt can take away/assign value to whatever or wherever they want in regards to such events as preparation for self defense. Many IDPA/USPSA/etc. don't even carry guns outside of gaming. For some, it's just something fun to do.
The way IDPA enforces use of cover allows folks to build up all sorts of habits that most "tactical" shooters would tell you are troublesome. In particular, crowding cover isn't just allowed but often encouraged or even required for some stages. (and prior to the new rulebook, some clubs required it because they mistakenly thought it was the right way to use cover... further evidence that learning your "defensive skills" from IDPA can be dangerous)
This would be more meaningful if more competitors were practicing that "defensive skill" with the gun & garment they wear every day instead of a game-specific gun in a game-specific holster under a game-specific fishing vest.drawing from concealment,
The way most competitors "shoot on the move" in IDPA is so unrealistic that it's a common topic of derision.moving while shooting,
I've never seen anyone pie a doorway at an IDPA match the way that's taught by every single tactics/CQB instructor I've ever met.entering through a door,
Like the concealed draw, I'm not sure how this is special to IDPA.and reloading quickly and behind cover
If you think the movement, cover, and clearing "skills" that are best for IDPA are teaching you good tactical fundamentals you're giving the games will get you killed crowd a perfect target.Those are all defensive to me. I think it's wrong to suggest that IDPA doesn't teach defensive fundamentals.
I certainly don't carry a GP100 under a fishing vest every day.
Why not? Everybody else in SoDak does.
In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man
It'd get in the way of the Redhawk in .44 Magnum, which is a much more Dakota-acceptable choice.Why not? Everybody else in SoDak does.
