How Relevant is LE and Military Experience to Private Citizens?

[jlw]

It depends...

If your personal life consists to teaming up with strangers and doing bound and cover up a street whilst blasting threats or stacking up and doing dynamic entries, maybe some of the .mil/SWAT guys have just the training you need. Of course, maybe you need to evaluate your lifestyle.

That being said, many of those guys probably have good stuff to learn when it comes to individually running a carbine.

The flip side holds true as well.

A USPSA grand master would probably be a good place to go for learning how to run a pistol, but if he has never worn a badge or been in a combat arms military job, room clearing probably isn't his forte.

[Chuck Haggard]

While I would go to a class being taught by a GM shooter to improve my skills, I do tend to notice that a lot of such folks walk off the range with all of their guns in a bag.

That's a problem for me.

[rob_s]

While I would go to a class being taught by a GM shooter to improve my skills, I do tend to notice that a lot of such folks walk off the range with all of their guns in a bag.

That's a problem for me.

Why? Does it make them less of a shooter? Is there some magical "because tactical" that somehow diminishes their skill with a pistol?

[Casual Friday]

While I would go to a class being taught by a GM shooter to improve my skills, I do tend to notice that a lot of such folks walk off the range with all of their guns in a bag.

That's a problem for me.

I agree and would take training from just about any competent instructor who "stays in his/her lane" so to speak. I would go to a GM USPSA to improve my fundamentals and shooting skills, but wouldn't seek their advice on concealed carry methods, techniques and "tactics" if that isn't their speciality.

Why? Does it make them less of a shooter? Is there some magical "because tactical" that somehow diminishes their skill with a pistol?

I just want their skillset to match the curriculum they're teaching. If they're leaving the range with all their pistols in their range bag and none on their hip, that tells me that they probably aren't real serious about concealed carry and therefore probably shouldn't be teaching it.

[Chuck Haggard]

Why? Does it make them less of a shooter? Is there some magical "because tactical" that somehow diminishes their skill with a pistol?

Just one of my "things" I have to overcome.

Like I'm the only dude with issues.

[41magfan]

You know, ever since the Miami debacle in 1986, everyone that has shot more than a hundred rounds into a block of ballistic gelatin is a terminal ballistics expert.

Since 1990 (Gulf War I), everyone with an Infantry/SF MOS is suddenly an expert in all things related to the use of small-arms by civilians and the LE community. If they happen to have access to a square range, they’re suddenly in the weapons training business. And then we have those that have no real experience at anything (but pulling a trigger perhaps) teaching others the application and tactics of personal defense.

If you have no frame of reference or context for the subject matter, I guess some things being taught might sound plausible, but a whole bunch of stuff I’ve seen purported as being relevant is laced with a bunch of nonsense. But instead of trying to take issue with the mountain of things that may be misrepresented, let me just offer this as a suggestion to those serious about their training and/or preparation; EXAMINE WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE REAL WORLD.

Up until the last several decades, we didn’t have the luxury of all the video recordings which are so prolific these days and what actually took place in violent encounters was only observed by a handful of people (mostly cops & robbers). But in this day and age there are literally hundreds of real-life encounters out there for you to scrutinize. Now as often as not, the video may not relate all the facts surrounding the event because it won't capture all the relevant activities before, during and after the fact. But what is captured – is indeed the REALITY - IF it’s viewed in proper context. So, spend a lot of time looking at these videos with a critical eye. If your head is screwed on pretty straight, you will – sooner or later – recognize some common threads to ALL encounters/confrontations.

Now, compare what you see on video with what’s being shoveled out as being relevant with regards to training, tactics and equipment. If you have the ability to see things clearly in their proper context, you can’t help but notice disparity between what’s happening and what some people say is going to happen.

[YVK]

Why? Does it make them less of a shooter? Is there some magical "because tactical" that somehow diminishes their skill with a pistol?

You OK with learning a draw from a dude who has only drawn from a DOH or a leg rig, when you yourself only carry closed-front garment IWB?

[Dropkick]

ermergerd!! Different people, wanting to learn different skills sets, have to seek out different instructors. What is this world coming to?!

[Josh Runkle]

Why? Does it make them less of a shooter? Is there some magical "because tactical" that somehow diminishes their skill with a pistol?

I realize that most GM's are way more awesome than I will ever be in terms of shooting. I plan to train with some competitive shooters down the line as well...

That being said...

Does drawing from a speed rig really translate to teaching you how to draw from AIWB? If this person is really fast at clearing a cover garment like a fishing vest, and they choose to carry a glock 34 under a fishing vest for CCW, are they really going to teach something about garment clearing in CCW that applies to me? If they spend everyday practicing 1-2 trigger pulls, can they really teach every student on the line how those individual guns work?

I recently asked a question which was something to the effect of do you use the "roll off" method during a trigger press, or catching the "fat of the pad" to create a flat surface, or what? The answer I got was something to the effect of: "You need to figure that out for yourself in dryfire." Uhhhh...I already am doing that...what am I paying for?

Now there is a TON about shooting that relates to the competition world. There is also a TON about self-defense, tactics, mindset, CCW, etc that has absolutely nothing to do with shooting. Holster comfort has everything to do with CCW, and is very relevant, but has nothing to do with shooting.

[tremiles]

There's absolutely SOME LE/MIL experience that's relevant to private citizens. SouthNarc's ECQC and MUC developed from his experience as an undercover cop are prime examples. Just like instructors who are private citizens have something to offer LE/MIL.

As far as private citizens playing operator at "tactical" classes, who cares as long as they're safe and don't slow the rest of the class down. Who wouldn't call Magpul for Aerial Platform Operations if they had a whirlybird in their driveway and several thousand extra shekels.

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