+1.Originally Posted by IRISH
Fact of the matter, she created the situation. She needs to pay the price for it.
However, behavior of the cops is unacceptable. Being a dumb*** does not license those around someone, especially law enforcement officers to behave similarly. Not calling the medics is and language is what turned the incident for me. Take out those two things, I'd say she bought what she got.
The closest I ever came to being stabbed was by a skinny little B/F that wouldn't weigh 100 pounds soaking wet. And along those lines, it's been my experience that a disproportionate number of "little guys" are the ones always wanting to prove something and it always looks bad when those guys/girls are getting thumped.
Most of the people that make silly comments about physical force applications by the Police usually operate from a paradigm that reflects they're own experiences in dealing with physical conflict; you know, that fight that happened on the playground in the 6th Grade.
I should add a disclaimer: I'm not defending this particular action or any other, I'm just making a generalization.
Last edited by 41magfan; 09-12-2013 at 07:37 AM. Reason: disclaimer
The only thing worse than arrogance is false humility.
Very true.
However, the trouble in this comes from the actions after the bumping. Crunch some drunk dude/chick's nose because they were resisting? Fine by me. Shouldn't have been drunk, shouldn't have resisted. Period. Full stop.
Don't call the medics after, though? That's on the cop. And he should pay just like the drunk, IMO. That opens up all sorts of liabilities for the PD.
And unfortunately many cops that comment only operate from a paradigm that reflects their own experiences with getting pissed off the people are not complying with them and in turn responding from a place of emotion.
If that ain't the majority of folks
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Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
Not sure what to make of that think the cops could of handled it a bit better but at the end of the day she rolled the dice.
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kimbers have more issues than time magazine.
For the cops on the board:
What are your protocols for EMS? What crosses the line at which point EMS must be called?
For everyone else:
Why do you see it so cut and dry that they should have called EMS, and not doing so is a major f-up?
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
By policy, any injuries received prior to, during or after a person is taken into custody need to be treated. There is no excuse for not calling a squad to check them at the very least. Why assume that liability when you don't have to?
The only time it is acceptable to withhold medical treatment is if it is not safe for the medics to get to the suspect.
Formerly known as xpd54.
The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com
Any injury? If EMS were called every time someone got a bloody nose in my city, they would need a bus stationed at the sally port 24/7.
The reason I asked these questions is because I think that some people might be jumping the shark on laying into the officers for not calling EMS. We know after the fact that she had a broken orbital. Okay.....what signs did she present that she needed medical attention? What symptoms was she complaining of that demanded EMS be called? Just because she had a broken orbital doesn't mean anyone present would have automatically known she had a broken orbital and required hospitalization.
Actually, if EMS were called there, they very well may not have been able to ascertain she had a broken orbital either. There's a reason that we're pain-in-the-ass legalesed drones when we get calls where we can't find any obvious signs of injury. We're not doctors, we don't have insta-X-ray vision built into our glasses, so we can't actually tell if you are okay or not. So we automatically tell you that you should go to the hospital regardless for CYA purposes, and if you don't want to then we have you sign a waiver/refusal. A cop doesn't really have this option since he's not an ambulance...he/she needs to decide on scene whether the perp needs medical attention (unless they ask for it). Usually, this comes down to physical signs of injury or complaints of symptoms, neither of which this lady appeared to exhibit.
My point being how would a cop then be able to tell she needed medical attention? What, because she got slammed to the ground she automatically rates an eval? If that's the standard, then we better upgrade that bus commitment at the sally port x3, because the jail just became a mass casualty incident.
I mean, come on guys...think about it. Do you call EMS for every perp you slam to the ground? Probably not. Now what if one of those many takedowns ended up in a stable fracture that was discovered after the fact, because it wasn't immediately apparent on scene.....would that mean you made a bad call? Of course not. What matters is what was reasonable to suspect on scene.
She was kicking and screaming while apparently not giving a crap about her broken orbital, and from the video (I didn't watch the whole thing, admittedly) I couldn't really see any reason to suggest that it was unreasonable for the officers to not call EMS at the time. I'm not a cop, that's just my opinion as EMS.
Last edited by TGS; 09-13-2013 at 09:38 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Our policy requires medical attention be provided if they request it.
This may be an ambulance coming to the scene or us transporting them to the ER on the way to jail.
Not getting into the pros and cons of this arrest, I think regardless of those issues the medical part alone is going to cost that jurisdiction a lot of money.
I'll note the Graham decision, which is THE ruling for police use of force, stemmed from what was a medical issue.
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