How do you measure the value of a class?

[wilco423]

What do folks think of the way Louis does his improvised 3D targets? I found that one of the more interesting things about his classes. (That and the "final"...)

I thought his 3D method was fantastic, especially when the targets were not in "normal" vertical orientation. The horizontal ones really make it clear why there shouldn't be any "acceptable" amount of trigger snatch or anticipation.

As far as round count per class goes, I know know that for me, a lower number is probably better, unless there is a lot of actual coaching going on (as opposed to just running drills). If I'm fatigued due to a high tempo/round count, I'm less likely to be able to apply an instructed change in my technique. I know, weight room, right?

[Al T.]

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to training classes, so take it for what it's worth. When I was selecting my first training class, I was absolutely taken aback by Blackwater's 1,500 round ammo requirement. Not sure if it was a 2 or 3 day course, but that and the generic "genuine Navy SEALs" (!!!) aspect turned me off.

[LtDave]

However, a high round count course on just paper, where the targets are not constantly taped or changed is a complete waste of my training time and ammo.

Agree completely.

And I personally would rather shooter fewer rounds and learn something, than shoot lots and wonder what just happened.

[ST911]

As, or more important to me than round count, is the type and handling of targets. I like steel, because of the immediate feedback (although steel should be frequently painted to show hits), and I would think twice about attending a course without some steel. For paper, I really like the PF target, because of all the different dots, squares and aiming points. However, a high round count course on just paper, where the targets are not constantly taped or changed is a complete waste of my training time and ammo.

How do you feel about negative targets?

What do folks think of the way Louis does his improvised 3D targets? I found that one of the more interesting things about his classes. (That and the "final"...)

I haven't made an LA class yet. What's the "final", if not proprietary?

[Tamara]

I haven't made an LA class yet. What's the "final", if not proprietary?

He's got a setup of 3-D mannikin-like torso targets with various arrangements of wheeled dollies and/or swinging, pivoting arms that let you have a bad guy jinking and bobbing in the middle of a cluster of jinking and bobbing no-shoots. The whole thing is controlled by Louis yanking on ropes and is an eye opener. (Especially for people who don't believe a bullet can be deflected by the brim of a baseball cap. )

[KevinB]

I'd say it depends on the class.

If I went to a pistol class and shot 50 rds in 5 days - I would think that is pretty dumb, but if I went to a 5 day Advanced Hostage Rescue course and shot just 50rds of pistol in the class qualifier (and shot the remainder with rifle, and only then maybe 250 rds) I would think that was fine - for it was not specifically a shooting class.

Round counts in and of themselves are rather meaningless. I'd rather shoot quality rounds.

Example being Jason Falla/RB1 - we ran 18+hr days at a CQB class, most was dry, but was far the best class of that sort I've taken

The opposite side of the spectrum I shot 5k 5.56mm and 2k 9mm at a 5 day driving class...

Obviously perfect practice makes perfect -- if you get 1:1 with Frank Garcia - you can get a lot more bang for yoru bunk in a high round count class as he can help you at all time. In larger classes the student:instructor ration can affect how much good the round count is when doing non individual drills.

In closing I do not think round count means anything - its how the rounds where expended.

[PT Doc]

He's got a setup of 3-D mannikin-like torso targets with various arrangements of wheeled dollies and/or swinging, pivoting arms that let you have a bad guy jinking and bobbing in the middle of a cluster of jinking and bobbing no-shoots. The whole thing is controlled by Louis yanking on ropes and is an eye opener. (Especially for people who don't believe a bullet can be deflected by the brim of a baseball cap. )

It's quite the reality check when you feel proud about getting a good shot at 7 yards with an AR. (I believe we were in the same class at Boone County a few years back.)

[Tamara]

It's quite the reality check when you feel proud about getting a good shot at 7 yards with an AR. (I believe we were in the same class at Boone County a few years back.)

I believe we may have been. Is your gat in this picture?

Attachment 1768

[PT Doc]

I believe we may have been. Is your gat in this picture?

Attachment 1768

Hard to see on my phone, but the back, middle one with the light looks close. It was a JP VTAC with one of Bennie Cooley's comps. I'm sure the gentlemen on either side of me remember it.

[John Hearne]

You guys are not mentioning the best part of Louis' carbine class, learning to deal with the sights/bore offset at close range on a bobbing, weaving target. Threading a bullet into a tight spot on a moving target while figuring out the offset is an amazingly complex task - at least for me. (I made the shot but the bystander in the background didn't appreciate it that much)