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Thread: Does anyone shoot HK P30 LEM's to a high level?

  1. #1
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    Does anyone shoot HK P30 LEM's to a high level?

    I have tried to read the LTT thread and others here looking for this. I have a hankering to get a LTT P30 with the LEM. Looking around though I almost never see anyone shooting these. Of course I don't know a lot of people that shoot HK's period, but see even less at matches or in classes. I am going to assume like anything else you can get good at whatever you train properly but is the LEM a disadvantage from a pure shooting standpoint? Are there any really good shooters out there using them?

  2. #2
    There are a bunch of good shooters shooting LEM triggers. My experience is that your performance relative to your skill is lower with the LEM than with a number of other triggers. That may be a reason more of them get carried than completed with.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    I have tried to read the LTT thread and others here looking for this. I have a hankering to get a LTT P30 with the LEM. Looking around though I almost never see anyone shooting these. Of course I don't know a lot of people that shoot HK's period, but see even less at matches or in classes. I am going to assume like anything else you can get good at whatever you train properly but is the LEM a disadvantage from a pure shooting standpoint? Are there any really good shooters out there using them?
    Yes - it is a disadvantage, I’m not aware of any high level shooters running them.

    You need to read older threads from 8-10 years ago when LEM wa the flavor of the month here. A few people even tried to take them to the Rodgers Shooting School.

    TLDR -No one shoots LEM to a high level compared to other platforms. Hence most went to either Glocks or TDA guns.

    People here on POF tried all sorts of stuff, shooting double action .22 revolvers to train their fingers etc.

    Coming from an agency that issued LEM guns and carrying one as my primary carry gun for 8 years it is a trigger designed to minimize Negligent Discharges via gear instead of training. It requires one to only shoot LEM to be good with it and it’s a trigger that exacerbates anticipation issues.

    Can you make it work if you have to ? Sure, been there, done that, but there is zero reason to choose it over a Glock with a stock trigger and an SCD.

  4. #4
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    There's a B class USPSA shooter shooting a LTT P30 light LEM with a 507c. I haven't shot it, but playing with it at the safety table, it seemed comparable to a stock Glock.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....by-LEM-trigger

    @GJM from 2011

    I love my HK LEM pistols, but my scores on each day's test at Rogers are 15-20 points higher with a M&P Pro this time than last time thru with a P30 LEM.
    See also:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....to-be-together

    From @TheTrevor

    When you first showed up in my life, way back in February 2014, I knew that we'd be spending a lot of time together. After renting/borrowing various guns, I'd already decided to take you to Rogers as my new 9mm pistol, and that I'd be feeding you thousands of rounds of gun food during the work-up process.

    Things were great at first. Precision-style fire at the range was a bit challenging until I found the right combination of grip panels, hand position, and spring setup so we would work well together, but after that we got along swimmingly. I fed you the finest Freedom Munitions ammo (by the thousand) until I could run you with confidence. I had you custom-fitted for two different JM Custom Kydex holsters, an AIWB extra-tuck holster for concealment and an OWB holster for when you were wearing your shiny new Streamlight TLR-2.

    Then we went to Rogers together, and the honeymoon was over. The Rogers program will expose flaws in one's shooting ability (and equipment) like nothing else I've ever seen, particularly with the huge focus on single-hand shooting. My decade-plus of experience with your giant square-framed Viking uncles from the USP side of the family eventually clued me in to something important:

    It's really, really hard to consistently draw a rounded-grip gun (cough*HK spiderman grip*cough) from a concealment-oriented AIWB holster with anything resembling consistency of grip position. Worse, that lovely TGS/v4 LEM trigger setup that I'd come to so appreciate when shooting at a deliberate pace turned out to be a serious liability at Rogers, and to a lesser but significant extent, USPSA style shooting. A grip that varies randomly by several degrees in each direction on the draw is NOT good for maintaining a proper and consistent relationship between fingertip and trigger, to put it mildly.

    Maybe the problem lies with me, but I don't think so. I coined the term "HK Discount" at Rogers ("Good for an automatic 15% off your test scores!") and pretty much everyone I discussed it with agreed with me that it was a real problem -- HK LEM guns are so, um, challenging during the SHO/WHO tests that they drag down the total score by roughly 15%. The clincher, though, was when I spent a grand total of 20 minutes warming up with a completely different gun which was entirely new to me (an M&P 9fs with Apex kit, from the Rogers armory) and immediately shot a passing score on my final attempt at the Rogers Test. And that happened even though I had a user-induced malfunction which cost me the opportunity to shoot an entire 8-plate sequence.

    So... where do we go from here? Do I keep you around as an excellent concealed-carry/hard-use gun even knowing that, one day, you may induce me to miss a critical SHO or WHO shot? Or is it time for us to part ways, and for me to sell you to fund the purchase of a different AIWB-safe gun to run in USPSA Limited 10?
    Last edited by HCM; 01-31-2023 at 08:44 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    There's a B class USPSA shooter shooting a LTT P30 light LEM with a 507c. I haven't shot it, but playing with it at the safety table, it seemed comparable to a stock Glock.
    Maybe LTT or Gray Guns can make LEM comparable to a Glock - but a stock LEM ? That a no from me.

  7. #7
    I think @joshs either made an A class or shot a few A-level classifiers. I quit P30 after making a B class, and I did stick with it for like 5 years although I didn't shoot the USPSA much in my first 3 years with it.
    Yes, I think this trigger is a significant disadvantage to a high-level competition-style shooting. I should also add that mine was tuned to un-recognition by gray guns and lazy wolf even before all of those short reset/short takeup parts were readily available.

    I did get a light pin with it in Gabe's class and I believe, although not certain, that I got intermediate in Rogers (I shot two guns in that class). I think someone more talented can take that trigger further. I think it is great for carry and adequate for related performance goals but I wish I gave up on that thing sooner.

    1.8x failure drill for the score in Gabe's first out-of-state training outing




    Run at Rogers, made more impressive because you can't see hit (but if you listen carefully, I'll get it

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lWItfgxvdAY
    Last edited by YVK; 01-31-2023 at 08:49 PM.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  8. #8
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Maybe LTT or Gray Guns can make LEM comparable to a Glock - but a stock LEM ? That a no from me.
    I was surprised. I haven't had much time on LEMs in general, but I could be happy carrying that gun.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    You work that search function better than I shot a LEM at Rogers. A number of others had a similar experience with LEM vs a striker or DA/SA. In fairness, a LEM match hybrid is a better trigger.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I think @joshs either made an A class or shot a few A-level classifiers. I quit P30 after making a B class, and I did stick with it for like 5 years although I didn't shoot the USPSA much in my first 3 years with it.
    Yes, I think this trigger is a significant disadvantage to a high-level competition-style shooting. I should also add that mine was tuned to un-recognition by gray guns and lazy wolf even before all of those short reset/short takeup parts were readily available.

    I did get a light pin with it in Gabe's class so I think someone more talented can take that trigger further. I think it is great for carry and adequate for related performance goals but I wish I gave up on that thing sooner.

    1.8x failure drill for the score in Gabe's first out-of-state training outing

    AFAIK only one person has ever shot an advanced score at a Rogers with LEM.

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