Nobody's saying that there weren't places where gun confiscation happened (City of New Orleans and some surrounding 'burbs) but you seem to be saying that there are no places where it didn't (most of Louisiana and Mississippi.)Originally Posted by IRISH
I guess I run in different circles. Well, duh. I know I do. And this is the only place on the internet where I bother to exchange information and ideas, mostly because I was invited to do so. So I don't know what the "majority" of people who espouse mindset can or cannot do.
I know what the guys I know, who say mindset, can and can't do. None of whom fall into the "wheeze when they walk more than 20 yards", and all have been punched more than a few times in the face.
Certainly there is an extent of the population who do not know for a fact how critical "mindset" is. But with the Kyle's Defoor and Lamb, Paul Howe, and other SME's in the training arena sharing similar thoughts, it would stand to reason that their students would pick up some of what was put down.
As for the reality of carrying/using a rifle in the US due to whatever circumstances may arise that necessitate such action............ it's a scary thought. How far this society would have go down in order for it to be not only necessary, but also acceptable? Probably pretty far. Is it possible?
I don't know.
Is water wet?
While I acknowledge the possibility of wholesale zombie apocalypse scenarios, ranging from regional Katrina-type disasters to the Balkans writ large, my immediate long gun concern outside the house is, as I have alluded to, urban unrest of some sort. There have been honest-to-Betsy burning-cop-cars-in-the-street riots near here within recent memory and you never know what might trigger one again. (Lord knows the media did their best to stir one up earlier this year.)
Then again, during New Year's Eve 1999, I was posting on the internets from here with not a long gun in sight, so maybe I've gotten paranoid in my old age.
Let me see if I can get in the middle of this as I get what both Jody H and Sean M are both saying.
I get Jody's case as there are a whole crap load of people in the training, gun shop, and gun culture world (we could also probably include a majority of the "martial studies/enthusiast world) who talk a VERY big game about mindset, killing, and general feel good tough talk. I have found that many have not only never been tested themselves, but many have done nothing scarier than coming home and their mom forgot to leave the porch light on. I would much prefer to see those people who really don't know themselves to maybe dial it back and suggest reading and resources to their students/audience than talk about "what they would do". This goes along with lots of stupid advise from "our world".
On Sean's side of the equation, many of us have actually been engaged with people who are honestly trying to kill us. It is especially brutal when it is at contact range and you are entwined with very little margin for error. It is helpful to learn from people who get the brutality, especially if they have had multiple encounters of these types. Many of us have won fights we shouldn't have "on paper". So maybe tapping the information from those who have cheated the odds might be worthwhile in preparing yourself to possibly have to deal with a bad situation.
I wanted to add an additional note for about the not so fit and beautiful people of the world. Fat, ugly people have very little to lose, and it is probably not their first rodeo. Many have been fighting for a lifetime and have a lot of being picked on brewed up inside them. The overweight fat guy doesn't give a crap. If he doesn't really care about himself, he cares less about you. I wouldn't underestimate anybody. One of the things I did as a cop was to adopt a "warrior code" in which anybody who wanted to resist me got 110%, because I respected them as a fellow warrior. That attitude meant that "anything goes" to win, as well as not dishonoring myself by not stopping when it was done. As I liked to say, "when the cuffs go on, the war is over.....until then anything goes to win". The reality is any kind of human combat is scary. It ALWAYS has a risk of going wrong. If you don't believe me, just watch the "Trooper Coates" video to see this first hand. People cheat, and while we can try to stack the odds in our favor in a lot of ways, the fact is that sometimes the "underdog" wins with their mean gene.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.............
There are some structural problems at work when discussing fighting mindsets.
For one, every fight is different. The first time I reached for my weapon in a personal defense situation was an entirely different background and circumstance from the second time. Fortunately both situations ended without shots being fired, but we have to remember that there are no cookie-cutter defensive situations. Just general tactics which can give us the edge-but beyond that, its a battle of wits between the parties, and no small amount of luck.
The second point is that , thankfully , we live in a society where physical violence is not a universal experience among the general population. Yet, this breeds machismo problems where people draw wrong conclusions due to their lack of experience.It doesn't help that people are inherently critical of others , especially if they haven't "seen the elephant". Why should a student listen to an otherwise competent instructor who hasn't had to shoot anyone ? That's a poisonous line of thinking, especially because the people who have BTDT won't be in a hurry to talk about it. I've had to reach for my carry gun, but that's not an experience im in a hurry to share at a roundtable no matter how educational it may be. If I'd wound up shooting the guy I REALLY wouldn't want to talk about it. Re-hashing the day I almost shot someone over and over isn't my idea of a great experience, and i'm inclined to believe I'm not alone in that thought process.
Thus, the only people with a distinct voice in the gun community are the blowhards and the loudmouths. Such is the nature of life.
An interesting observation............
By that rationale, the instructors who are BTDT's fall into the "blowhards and loudmouths" category because they take their lessons learned and pass them on to their students.
Swingin' for the fences there, aintcha?
You've referenced Ayoob a number of times in other threads. Is he a blowhard and loudmouth, then? I doubt you think so. There are quite a few folks who participate here who have some pretty extensive experience who wouldn't properly be labeled so, either.
This honestly has to be one of the weirdest threads PF has ever seen...
In some places, there is an expectation to share your knowledge and experience, to make others better. It is not considered being a "blowhard" or a "loudmouth." It is considered a moral obligation.
C Class shooter.
Well said.
And since this thread has gone almost completely off topic in so many directions my head is spinning, it's a good time to send it gently into that good night...
