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Thread: Glock 19 Extractor Woes

  1. #21
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    NGCSUGrad09--I don't disagree that a lot of the problems have been brought on by unanticipated changes done by management in Austria; however that does NOT excuse Glock USA for it's incredibly poor response to complaints of problems by agencies including the initial outright denials that any problems were occurring, intimidating officers at agencies that have reported issues, and not clearly documenting and reporting problems to other agencies.

  2. #22
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    NGCSUGrad09--I don't disagree that a lot of the problems have been brought on by unanticipated changes done by management in Austria; however that does NOT excuse Glock USA for it's incredibly poor response to complaints of problems by agencies including the initial outright denials that any problems were occurring, intimidating officers at agencies that have reported issues, and not clearly documenting and reporting problems to other agencies.
    You single them out. Did S&W report to all agencies that they had to refit NC troopers .357 Sigs to fix the dead trigger issues? (discussed on M4C too) Did they notify ME? My gun had some reset issues. No they just gradually work some changes into production year(s) later.

    Were those officers covered under an NDA and was there a question that they might be violating that NDA? Not sayin' they were but since you are dialed into that scene, you might know.

    There isn't a dime's difference from one company to the next in these matters with very few exceptions.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  3. #23
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    The S&W LE reps we deal with have been very good about letting us know when problems crop up and what fixes might work; in contrast, with the exception of Tueller, most Glock reps have stonewalled and tried to dance around problems. The officers I personally know who Glock has tried to intimidate and inveigle were NOT under any NDA, nor were their agencies. Nonetheless, S&W can be just as insolent and insipid as Glock, which is why I wrote:

    "..yet it continues to appear that S&W's corporate "leadership" is inexplicably intent on destroying all the goodwill and market share that S&W's superb LE reps have tried to generate for the company."
    .

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    There isn't a dime's difference from one company to the next in these matters with very few exceptions.
    Alot of dimes in difference between one company to another for me. Some companies will pay for shipping if you have an issue with a pistol and some won't unless you have pull or know someone.

  5. #25
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    The S&W LE reps we deal with have been very good about letting us know when problems crop up and what fixes might work; in contrast, with the exception of Tueller, most Glock reps have stonewalled and tried to dance around problems. The officers I personally know who Glock has tried to intimidate and inveigle were NOT under any NDA, nor were their agencies. Nonetheless, S&W can be just as insolent and insipid as Glock, which is why I wrote:

    .
    Thanks Doc, I do appreciate you adding that detail as this particular has been referred to occassionally by insiders without that degree of context since mid last year as I recall. I think it was Indiana State Police that had issues with G22s and reports suggested poor response which resulted in converting to 9mm. Seems the marquee account NYPD got extensive attention during their Phase 3 crisis some years back.

    Penzoil - I see your point but a generous CS dept alone does not sway me that much. I'm looking for deeply integrated TQM so that users don't have to settle for availing themselves of friendly CS so freaking often or so repeatedly for the same issues. Which in turn harkens to Todd's posts on some threads here about how quality control has gotten derailed across numerous gun companies as they drive costs out of their processes to remain competitive in a market dominated by lowest common demoninator buyers.

    Combine that with less than highly developed leadership to establish finely tuned standards of consistent service and messaging across a population of sales reps and it is insanely easy to get this patchwork of great responsiveness in one area and stonewalling in others. Account reps hired principally on a basis of personal networking is I suspect, a danger for many of these companies.

    I'm approaching a month just trying to get some feedback, any feedback - about a very a highly sought after AR upper I returned to the builder (on my own dime)- which would group 55 grain loads into a couple inches consistently but 77 grain Black Hills into 8-10 inch "patterns" at 100 yards. I'm not outing them and still giving them more time to get some information back to me. They are one of the "darling's" of the hard use community yet I sense they don't have their "quality systems" quite up to a level where those can keep up with their success/volume.

    Unfortunately, pinching pennies and "squeezing another almightly dollar" out of their operations is probably necessary for most of these gun companies - which are effectively rather small companies in the scheme of things. Todd has explained this dynamic already better than I could repeat.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #26
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Indiana State Police that had issues with G22s and reports suggested poor response which resulted in converting to 9mm.
    Somewhat but not exactly, but that's a rather long story in which my agency is also involved with Glock issues during the same time frame.

  7. #27
    See your point and agree JHC. I had a horrible experience with an expensive AR upper little over a year ago so I can relate there also. Hope your upper issue works out for you.

    Seen this on M4C and wonder if it's extractor related?
    Oakland PD Glock 9mm recall

  8. #28
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennzoil View Post
    See your point and agree JHC. I had a horrible experience with an expensive AR upper little over a year ago so I can relate there also. Hope your upper issue works out for you.

    Seen this on M4C and wonder if it's extractor related?
    Oakland PD Glock 9mm recall
    I saw it too and wonder if it's the dept DocGKR has alluded to. (Doc, it's rhetorical, I don't mean to bait for an answer
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  9. #29
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennzoil View Post
    Seen this on M4C and wonder if it's extractor related?
    Oakland PD Glock 9mm recall

    Weird, the last I knew they were issuing Glock 22s, which also had serious issues.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    OPD was not one of the agencies I was referring to...however multiple agencies have been having problems. One of the reasons why OPD finally transitioned pistols was because of persistent malfunctions with their previous 3rd gen G22's when lights were mounted...now in the ultimate twist if irony, they find their "new improved" 4th gen Glocks to be even more problematic than the older handguns. Hmmm, Color me surprised...

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