Train for reality: beginners?

[Mr_White]

Based on Givens' data, that seems likely, if you walk away from there having made a conscious decision to carry every day. I don't know from lately, but that used to be what Gunsite was most particularly good at (the epiphany). I wasn't being specific about Gunsite, though, and haven't sampled data there since the 90's to know; I'm just drawing a line between three day classes combining marksmanship and mindset (150 equivalent) and 1-2 day skills only or (worse) ccw classes, which are worth squat for a new shooter (But in the case of the skill builder, great for a trained person).


Jon
KC

Based on Givens' data, I would agree that their claim seems likely, even though it is a truly grandiose statement coming from anyone.

But also based on Givens' data, a one-ish day CCW class could probably be making about as grandiose a statement.

[David Armstrong]

Not directed at any particular person, but something I came to realize more than a decade ago when I quit teaching the CCW class at the NRA Range: How do you sign off on someone as "certified" to carry concealed if you've never seen them draw from concealment?

You, yourself, think it's unsafe for the person to be handling a loaded gun in the holster on a firing line under the eyes of instructors with little or no stress. But you are willing to sign your name to a sheet of paper that says he's been trained to carry a concealed handgun. Pass.

I realize that the instructor can justify his actions by saying, "I trained him to the standards required by the state for a CCW permit applicant." I still don't want to be the one checking the box for the guy.

It's nothing new. We have many decades of off-duty and plainclothes LEOs carrying concealed without ever having any training on drawing from concealment. But I think you hit the key with "in the holster on a firing line". Often there can be constraints on a firing line and in a range environment that are not issues off of the firing line. Plenty of ranges don't allow drawing from the holster, drawing from concealment, etc. IIRC, the NRA basic handgun class mandates all courses of fire begin with the gun in the hand. Now, I don't about you, but I just don't want to have a full line of folks with very limited experience drawing from concealment, particularly when Joe is doing the Mexican Carry thing, Sally is using her Concealment Purse, Sam has his gun tucked away in his fancy fake DayRunner, Bill is using his super-duper Magill Tactical Pants holster, Danny is running round with an ankle holster, Larry has his shoulder holster thing going, etc. Sure, you could require everyone to bring a particular holster but then you are right back to the problem...you've checked the box without ever seeing/training the shooter to draw from concealment with the gun/holster combo he is going to use.