Do you Train for Reality?

[Tamara]

I plead ignorance on that one as well.

'Splain it to us, please.

.

The Group W bench is explained here.

(I just thought everybody knew "Alice's Restaurant". )

[NETim]

I'd like to think I am. I don't even wear 5.11's to training events anymore. I just show up in some ragbag t-shirt and non-descript on sale Bargain Cave Cabelas pants. Might dress up and wear some gun related t-shirt if I'm feelin' sporty.

However, there's always a full size pistol on the waistband.

Recently however I was told on another forum by a retired cop that I was wasting my time and money paying for professional training. All I need to do is shoot competition and I'll learn everything I need to know about tactics and the legalities of using lethal force there.




I can't begin to recount the staggering amount of absolute nonsense offered as "expert" advice at the range over the years.

[41magfan]

Statistically speaking, the typical self defense encounter-be it on the street or in the home-ends inside of 7 yards in 6 seconds. Again, statistically speaking, most defensive incidents end when the bad guy hits the bricks at the sight of his intended victim's weapon.

As such, "Realistic" training would logically consist of extensive legal education on the use of force and repetitive training with small, concealable firearms of various calibers SMALLER then 9mm .

That wouldn't be a very sexy pistol class would it-and lets not forget, all that ammo and steel/paper targets cost money. At some point the instructor has to pay his phone bill too. The "tacticool" gear and drills might be flowery excess, but its fun and builds mental confidence in the student-and fights are won not with guns or bullets but with minds. You may not like the faux special forces aspect, but its a lot better then untrained people walking about with firearms-or worse, trained students scared at the moment of truth.

If I grasp what you're saying correctly - I have to agree.

The target engagement distance for most "trainers" begins at a point where most real-life civilian encounters tend to end - which is usually inside of ten to fifteen feet.

It's a total waste of time to expose most casual gun toters (which make up the overwhelming majority of the concealed carry population) to targets or scenarios beyond 20' UNTIL they can consistently operate inside this critical space with their LCP's, Kel-Tecs and J-Frames. Most "trainers" don't even know how to competently address pocket carry, purse carry of any other non-traditional method with these platforms because they've never done it, but that's the means and methods that 90% of these folks use.

Sadly, the kind of training most civilians need is hard to sell and find for two reasons; it lacks any gloss or cool factor, and neither party (the teacher or the student) fully appreciates what should be a priority.

[Ed L]

First, it depends if we are talking about carbine classes or handgun classes.

Most carbine classes require you to bring 3-4 spare magazines to the line as a matter of convenience to keep the class running and minimize the amount of time spent going back and forth and forth to get new mags or to load them. This necessitates some type of chest rig, vest, or special belt.

A similar thing exists in handgun classes, where students often carry more mags than they would normally carry for the sake of expediency, or even to meet the class requirements. This is often beyond what their normal carry setup can accommodate.

Also, as TPD223 said,

I do note that many course are not really conducive to running your gun from something like a Summer Special under a T-shirt.

What works with a small group of friends who are experienced shooters doesn't always translate into a larger formal class with unfamiliar attendees of unknown skill levels.

[Tamara]

It's a total waste of time to expose most casual gun toters ...

Truthfully? I come to this forum to get away from casual gun toters.

[ToddG]

It's a total waste of time to expose most casual gun toters...

1. Casual gun toters do not make up the bulk of students at higher level (post-CCW certification) classes, though. You don't go to Porsche Racing School hoping to spend time mastering your three point turn and parallel parking.

2. There is a huge difference between what I'd teach a guy who's never going to set foot on the range again versus a guy who is going to spend a day a week practicing for the next five years.

What works with a small group of friends who are experienced shooters doesn't always translate into a larger formal class with unfamiliar attendees of unknown skill levels.

I wouldn't attend a class that required me to dumb down my gear for the sake of lowest common denominator.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Here's the wilder question: why do guys who've NEVER been in the military, tactical LE job, or overseas armed contractor role have battle rigs and take them to classes instead of EDC gear?

If I may ask, why do guys who have no LE or .mil purpose take classes that require battle rigs, drop leg holsters, and AR's, or what I call 'Warrior Fantasy Camp?' Train for the fight you are most likely to experience rather than what you experience in your wildest fantasies.

Excellent topic, OP.

[41magfan]

Truthfully? I come to this forum to get away from casual gun toters.

If I understand you correctly, I might be doing the same thing. But the population that I was referring to has absolutely NO interest in the things we discuss and that was the point I hope came across.

[tremiles]

Since the mgmt. of my local range doesn't allow a draw from a holster except in matches, I shoot IDPA in my everyday carry gear. I was surprised when the RSO of my first IDPA match looked at me like I had a 2nd head when I showed up in a golf shirt as my concealment garment and IWB holster.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Wendell]

If I may ask, why do guys who have no LE or .mil purpose take classes that require battle rigs, drop leg holsters, and AR's, or what I call 'Warrior Fantasy Camp?'

Please define "...a well regulated militia..."