Expansion of 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180gr. jhp?

[veteran-USMC]

Members: I am writing about the 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180gr. jhp. Muzzle velocity out of a 4 inch barrel is 1025fps. I have seen reports indicating that if this rounds muzzle velocity falls to 1000fps or less that this round is inconsistent with expanding. My handgun is a Sig 229 40 caliber with a 3.85 inch barrel and I am concerned that this round might lose enough velocity to not expand. Do any members know of this condition with this round? Thank-you for your thoughts.

[DocGKR]

That is simply not true.

We have seen some lots of the Speer 180 gr GD with MV's in the 950-1000 fps range when fired out of Sig P229's. The bullets worked perfectly fine--including good expansion through the 4LD and/or heavy clothing tests in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin placed at both 10 feet from the muzzle and at 25 yds.

[veteran-USMC]

That is simply not true.

We have seen some lots of the Speer 180 gr GD with MV's in the 950-1000 fps range when fired out of Sig P229's. The bullets worked perfectly fine--including good expansion through the 4LD and/or heavy clothing tests in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin placed at both 10 feet from the muzzle and at 25 yds.

Good Morning DocGKR! Thank-you for this information. Now I'll load up my Sig 229 with much less concern about these rounds expanding. Time to brew some coffee. Semper Fi.

[Chuck Haggard]

I think some of this internet drama comes from the pics, taken out of context, from that stolen FBI powerpoint ref the gunfight in PA where the coppers had blast the bad guy eleventy-seven times before he quit. In those pics are a couple that show obvious unexpanded .40 bullets, which were 180gr Gold Dots.

To be more in context, and I have a bit more insight due to one of the coppers from this fight attending a course with one of the guys I teach with, that fight involved basically a running gunbattle with that bad guy in which a bunch of the shots fired had to go through, under and around cars.

Doc will correct me if I am wrong, but a .40 bullet that does not expand will display massive levels of penetration and normally won't stay inside a human body. From talking to the guys who got more of the inside on the shootout I believe that several of the bullets in said bad guy went through parts of the car before hitting him. Bullets that have to go through sheet metal almost never expand, it is what it is applies here.

I have seen a number of OISs involving the 180gr Gold Dot due to a large metro agency just down the road using that load for issued duty ammo ever since it was put on the market by Speer. They have not had any failures to expand in any of their shootings.

I would hazard a guess that the 180gr Gold Dot is one of the most issued .40 duty loads in the US, perhaps the most issued. It is a very successful service load and well proven both in the lab and on the street.

[BLR]

Members: I am writing about the 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180gr. jhp. Muzzle velocity out of a 4 inch barrel is 1025fps. I have seen reports indicating that if this rounds muzzle velocity falls to 1000fps or less that this round is inconsistent with expanding. My handgun is a Sig 229 40 caliber with a 3.85 inch barrel and I am concerned that this round might lose enough velocity to not expand. Do any members know of this condition with this round? Thank-you for your thoughts.

Along the lines of what Gary said, GDs are soft, swaged lead core bullets with a very thin pure copper (meaning very soft) "jacket" that is plated on in a galvanic tumbler. You really have to work to get them not to expand. Especially at 800-1000fps.

[veteran-USMC]

I think some of this internet drama comes from the pics, taken out of context, from that stolen FBI powerpoint ref the gunfight in PA where the coppers had blast the bad guy eleventy-seven times before he quit. In those pics are a couple that show obvious unexpanded .40 bullets, which were 180gr Gold Dots.

To be more in context, and I have a bit more insight due to one of the coppers from this fight attending a course with one of the guys I teach with, that fight involved basically a running gunbattle with that bad guy in which a bunch of the shots fired had to go through, under and around cars.

Doc will correct me if I am wrong, but a .40 bullet that does not expand will display massive levels of penetration and normally won't stay inside a human body. From talking to the guys who got more of the inside on the shootout I believe that several of the bullets in said bad guy went through parts of the car before hitting him. Bullets that have to go through sheet metal almost never expand, it is what it is applies here.

I have seen a number of OISs involving the 180gr Gold Dot due to a large metro agency just down the road using that load for issued duty ammo ever since it was put on the market by Speer. They have not had any failures to expand in any of their shootings.

I would hazard a guess that the 180gr Gold Dot is one of the most issued .40 duty loads in the US, perhaps the most issued. It is a very successful service load and well proven both in the lad and on the street.

Many thanks for your post tpd223! Straight facts is what I was hoping to get. Gold Dot 180gr. jhp is a keeper to me. Need to brew another pot of coffee. Semper Fi.

[Al T.]

well proven both in the lad and on the street.

Funniest thing I've read on a forum in a long, long time.

[Chuck Haggard]

Funniest thing I've read on a forum in a long, long time.

Crap.

[ST911]

That is simply not true.

We have seen some lots of the Speer 180 gr GD with MV's in the 950-1000 fps range when fired out of Sig P229's. The bullets worked perfectly fine--including good expansion through the 4LD and/or heavy clothing tests in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin placed at both 10 feet from the muzzle and at 25 yds.

At one gel shoot, the BHA and Speer GDHPs were getting ~.60-.65 through 4LD from G27s and G23s, 950-1000fps. When fired through 2 sheets of 20ga and windshields through the same guns, they were running ~.50. The BHA loading ran just a little slower than the Speer by ~30-50fps.

[Rich]

I think some of this internet drama comes from the pics, taken out of context, from that stolen FBI powerpoint ref the gunfight in PA where the coppers had blast the bad guy eleventy-seven times before he quit. In those pics are a couple that show obvious unexpanded .40 bullets, which were 180gr Gold Dots.

To be more in context, and I have a bit more insight due to one of the coppers from this fight attending a course with one of the guys I teach with, that fight involved basically a running gunbattle with that bad guy in which a bunch of the shots fired had to go through, under and around cars.

Doc will correct me if I am wrong, but a .40 bullet that does not expand will display massive levels of penetration and normally won't stay inside a human body. From talking to the guys who got more of the inside on the shootout I believe that several of the bullets in said bad guy went through parts of the car before hitting him. Bullets that have to go through sheet metal almost never expand, it is what it is applies here.

I have seen a number of OISs involving the 180gr Gold Dot due to a large metro agency just down the road using that load for issued duty ammo ever since it was put on the market by Speer. They have not had any failures to expand in any of their shootings.

I would hazard a guess that the 180gr Gold Dot is one of the most issued .40 duty loads in the US, perhaps the most issued. It is a very successful service load and well proven both in the lab and on the street.

Those pics of BG tattoo are something else.