I don't think there's enough raw data out there in regards to the SD 9 at this point. As a friend, you can only make suggestions. In the end, it's up to the guy buying the gun to be happy with his purchase.Originally Posted by SecondsCount
Just don't be surprised if you get a phone call saying "oh man I wish I had listened to you 6 months ago."
If he's set on the SD 9, well, I guess he can T&E it for the rest of us.
Makarov. I am only half-joking.
If I knew what's price for 9x18 ammo was, I could've been only 1/4 joking.
About $230 / case.
Mak's aren't the value they were a decade ago. I've seen East German and Soviet examples go for well over $400, and ammunition is just as expensive as 9x19.
Oh, the happy days of 2000 / 2001 plinking away with my $79 East German Mak and dirt cheap surplus East German ammo......
A factory refurbished Glock is an excellent bet; alternatively, a used Glock can be gone through thorougly by the Glock Armorer at a GSSF match at no charge, with parts replaced/upgraded as needed (also at no charge).
Some other alternatives that come to mind: In 9 mm: a used Ruger P89 (if he ships the gun to Ruger, they'll thoroughly go through it, reparing/replacing components as needed, at no or very little charge normally);
A CZ 82 or 83, in either .380 or 9mm MAK-these guns are extremely well made, and are all steel; the 9mm MAK version (usually labelled CZ82, with a plainer finish) have a polygonal barrel; they're accurate and unlike many other similar pistols in this niche actually have usuable sights; triggerpulls tend to be excellent
In a revolver, it's hard to go wrong with a used Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six revolver.
Best, Jon
I guess I could tell you to lend him money, or convince him to spend more(which you already have tried doing) but that really wouldn't answer your question, so....
I think you can still find SIG P6's out there for $350 or less, though I might be wrong. As mentioned the old S&W 3rd gen pistols might be a good choice, I know a shop in Va that sells them for $309 used.
Another gun to look into would be the Astra copies of SIG's. I really don't have any experience or knowledge on their quality/reliability, but they're cheap as hell so it's something to look into.
Now if you're talking $300 max, no going over, then for auto's I would look into the Ruger LCP, S&W Sigma, Ruger P89 or KelTec PF9/P11. The Sigma is not a nice gun to shoot. I've shot a few hundred rounds from my buddies' Sigma .40 and the trigger felt like it was 16lbs or something ungodly heavy. Way heavier than my J-frame. It sort of reminded me of a VP70. However, it was also very gritty and had a pretty good slap to it. For under $300, I think a Sigma is the best option for an auto. The Ruger P89 has a reputation of being very heavily built, though that's all I've ever heard.......
The PF9 has a much better trigger than the P11. They're not the nicest guns, but my PF9 with the chrome slide was actually of decent build quality for it's purpose as a low-round count gun and was generally reliable. That may fit his bill as well.....they're built specifically for that market. However if he was willing to go $50 more expensive for the Sigma or S&W 3rd gens, that'd be a much, much better route. One of the perks to Kel Tec's is that if you do have problems with the gun their post-sale CS is outstanding. Unlike what a lot of people perceive, KelTec's are not a saturday night special junk gun. Although they're not designed to run more than a few thousands rounds and aren't the epitome of quality, they're quite good for their purpose and price range. They're certainly not in the likes of Lorcin, Jennings, Hi Point, Raven, Jimenez, RG Industries, ect.
I would stay away from anything Taurus unless you can verify how reliable it is. They're a decent pistol for the price if they work and their designs aren't faulted, however their QC is terrible and there's a 50/50 chance you're getting a lemon. To boot, their CS is abysmal. So I think the best thing you can do as a friend is not let him buy a Taurus unless you can verify the reliability of the exact gun he's purchasing.
My #1 suggestion for something that is under $300 would be the plethora of old S&W and Ruger revolvers that are available in serviceable condition from $200-$280. It might not have the capacity of a Sigma or look as pretty and new, however the trigger will be much better, parts probably won't break as much and the reliability will beat a Sigma......plus, when he shoots it, he'll be more apt to take aim and hit something rather than just blast away as fast as possible. And when he does blast away......wow, that's a whole 6 rounds, not half a box.....
Re: revolver suggestions - isn't .38 SPC ammo about twice the cost of 9x19?
It's about $16 per 50 where I live. So a couple bucks more, but I don't think we're talking about someone that's going to be shooting hordes of it and actually see the cost savings. There's really no difference in premium quality SD ammo.
Here's some links to some of the surplus pistols mentioned by others. I don't have any experience or knowledge of them, so don't think that I'm recommending them or not. Just posting some examples I found that you may want to look into further:
Polish P64, less than $200:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....f0ad00f88ba99d
Makrov, $220:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....f0ad00f88ba99d
CZ 82's, $200-$240:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/han...f0ad00f88ba99d
9mm is around $10.50-11.00 here for cheap range stuff. You can look at it as "only a couple bucks more", but I look at that as 50-60% more. (while double was admittedly exaggerated now that I'm looking at actual numbers).
Sure, he's not going to be shooting massive amounts of ammo, but if he's so strapped for cash that his gun budget is like it is, I'd think that it's worth considering long-term cost, as well. Having been there, I know that every penny counts sometimes.
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