So... Pertinent stupid question...
I see the one LEO wearing a vest all the time, and I see a variety of other plate carriers and soft armor in use at times in the photo.
Did some drills require armor? Or were folks just wearing it for "train as you fight"... Or a combination?
What were holsters like? AIWB, IWB, OWB, Thigh? Retention devices?
And thanks for the review.
Jon
Interesting write up. I really liked this picture where you see the reflection of the class in the rear view mirror.Originally Posted by Arclight
Armor was not a requirement for the course or any drills. Some folks wore armor for the entire class. I don't normally wear armor, but I donned a slick plate carrier for some of the later exercises on the third day that involved movement on the range. This was simply a precaution as these drills involved turning and moving with the firearm drawn. As was said earlier, this was a switched on group of students; it seemed to me that the students knew their own capabilities and no one tried to go beyond their personal safe speed limits.
Holsters were very diverse. Arclight and I both used Raven Concealment Systems Phantom OWB holsters (both standard and light compatible). I'd say OWB carry was the most common. Among the LEOs there were duty rigs and thigh drops in use. Several folks ran their pistol from a MOLLE style belt. I did observe AIWB, and Haley touched on AIWB carry (using the Incog holster).
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
I actually expected to like the CAP sights in the dark more than I did, but I say that with a caveat: I have shot 3-dot sights for 95%+ of my handgun shooting experience, so I'm definitely more programmed to interpret them under stress. If you actually practiced with the CAPs, you'd probably find them more than adequate.
Pros of the CAPs:
- The front sight is very visible, and this is a big plus.
- If you get confused lining up the dots, the "dash" and dot model may work well for you.
- They are photoluminescent, so if you're going from light to dark, they'll be even brighter for your eyes to pick up (if the sights aren't shrouded too much by the holster).
Cons to the CAPs:
- I found the "dash" to be hard to line up sharply with my focus on the front sight in the dark.... it's good enough for close engagements (which is probably most of where people want them) but when we did the walkback drill, I found it hard to line up a blurry dash that blends in with the front sight color. This would probably improve with practice, and it may depend on your eyes and sight picture.
- It's easier for me to see if the dots are lined up both horizontally and vertically. I lose the blurry rear dash in the front sight color, which can throw off the vertical. The horizontal isn't bad. If they were more distinctly different (colors, maybe), it may help.
- It's different. This isn't a big deal most of the time, but as I said, I have a moment of "wait, what?" when I present and don't get three dots. Again, that's my lack of practice and exposure speaking, but know where you come from if you're thinking of changing sight styles.
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The Trijicon HD 3-dot sights were what I had on my Gen4 17 (used for day all three days and night the first night). Hands down my favorite sights right now, they're clearly visible in day and night. I have the orange front, which for my eyes is more visible in daytime than the yellow option. Opinions vary. Having the high visibility front sight definitely reinforces front sight focus and tracking in daylight, especially coming from shooting standard Glock or Trijicon 3-dots for years. Shooting in the dark with no light worked quite well -- the dots were very visible and distinct -- but it made me wonder if it would be worth trying different colors in the front and rear to make keeping track of the front easier. What I found was that, as long as my grip and presentation were solid, the gun aligns properly so that's not an issue. Shooting in nonstandard positions (rollover prone) could be a different story.
I'm very happy with the HD sights and I would get them again. The CAP sights came from the factory on my Gen3 G17 and while I don't like them as much as the HDs, I probably won't bother changing them (I use that gun pretty rarely). If anything, I may find a two-dot rear sight that's compatible and swap it in, since the front sight of the CAPs is great.
Last edited by Arclight; 08-22-2013 at 07:49 PM.
"The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to have its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards." - Sir William Francis Butler
Thank you. I was wondering if anyone would notice that!
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To the holsters question, JSGlock34 covered most of it, but as for retention I observed both ALS and SLS Safariland holsters in use. For the most part, it appeared to be strong side belt carry with a handful of drop and offset or drop leg duty holsters and one or two AIWB.
Interestingly (to me), it was one of the LEOs (a detective) who I saw carrying AIWB. He said he prefers it because of the concealment and because he sits in a car a lot of the time. The department didn't have an objection, which was refreshing to hear.
"The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to have its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards." - Sir William Francis Butler
Circles and Squares?! Oh my!
Thanks for the thoughtful insights. I especially liked how you described how easy/difficult it was to line each type up both vertically and horizontally. I've been using the Trijicons, but was interested in the CAPs, but not as much now. Thanks again, I appreciate it.
Cats and dogs together!Circles and Squares?! Oh my!.
Seriously though, all that speaks to my experience. I also don't like the "straight-8" sights for the same reason, but top shooters swear by them. Or the blacked out rears. That's not to say they're not great sights for some people, but they don't fit my (current) experience and preference.
If you're thinking about switching sights for a reason other than "I haven't bought anything new in a while", consider what that reason really is. If it's because 3-dot isn't working well for you under some circumstances or for some reason, then maybe it's time for an alternative. If you're just exploring alternatives out of curiosity and want to see if another pattern suits you better, I'd recommend finding someone who's got 'em and spending a little time to see how they work for you. You might need a break-in period to get used to them, but it should give you an idea.
For what it's worth, my best performance in a pistol-only shooting match was with Glock factory dot-and-bucket sights (you know, the decorative ones they put on the gun as a placeholder before you buy real sights), so you never know what may work out for you.
"The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to have its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards." - Sir William Francis Butler
Arclight,
Thanks for the response. Between you and TLG I'm rethinking my options for two pistols that need new sights....of course now I'm leaning toward the more expensive option!
Good write-up, and pics, thanks for taking the time to post.
Ref flashlight TTPs; Modified FBI was never meant to be a shooting technique, it's a search technique. Neck index is not a search technique, it's a shooting technique. Just an observation.
Was the older school FBI flashlight hold intended as a shooting technique?
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