Grip Strength question

[GJM]

In my rock climbing phase, I read about and practiced countless grip strength exercises. Depending on your goal (speed, stability, endurance, power, injury resiliency) there are countless ways of achieving success.

The grip motion utilizes slow twitch and fast twitch muscle types so conditioning, nutrition, and rest are your playbook. Grip strength involves 10 different muscle groups (3 in the forearm and wrist, 7 deep/superficial groups in the hand) and thus requires different types of activities (finger extensions, crimping, clamping, pinching, crushing). Overuse injuries occur when consistently exercising one strenuous technique without allowing your muscles and more importantly, your tendons, to heal themselves. Tendons take a very, very long time to recover. If you are unsure if you have rested enough, you absolutely have not. Overuse will inevitably lead to wrist and elbow problems. Also, never ever work out your ring finger by itself. There is a muscle group that connects your middle finger to your ring finger and it can be torn easier than you would think. Those two fingers are the core of your grip so they must work as a team. Always stretch thoroughly before and after each exercise as you will definitely get an instant flash-pump if you're doing it correctly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

For twenty + years, I was a very serious rock climber, and climbed 5.12.

Like a number of climbers, I gravitated to a climbing wall as efficient training, as you can get in a lot of reps quickly. One session, I popped a tendon in my middle finger on my right hand, working out on a climbing wall. It took a YEAR to heal, and 15 years later the middle joint is still distended. As we age, it seems to take progressively longer to heal injuries. I also had a 40 per cent tear in my right wrist, surgically repaired, as a result repeated diving playing volleyball.

I am, as a result, very conservative when it comes to things like intensive strength training. I do find that frequent shooting and dry firing is good for my strength, but try to use common sense to listen to my body, and stop when things hurt.

[BobLoblaw]

For twenty + years, I was a very serious rock climber, and climbed 5.12.

Like a number of climbers, I gravitated to a climbing wall as efficient training, as you can get in a lot of reps quickly. One session, I popped a tendon in my middle finger on my right hand, working out on a climbing wall. It took a YEAR to heal, and 15 years later the middle joint is still distended. As we age, it seems to take progressively longer to heal injuries. I also had a 40 per cent tear in my right wrist, surgically repaired, as a result repeated diving playing volleyball.

I am, as a result, very conservative when it comes to things like intensive strength training. I do find that frequent shooting and dry firing is good for my strength, but try to use common sense to listen to my body, and stop when things hurt.

Wow, you were a lot better climber. I stayed in the 5.10-5.11 range and bouldered more than anything (my buddies who stuck with it are climbing 5.12 & V9-10 now). It's a shame we bouldered so often with New River Gorge an hour away (5'7" neutral ape index so dynamic moves + rope = lots of whippers). I also was a gym rat in the off-season and injuries were typical for the regulars. Everybody was taking glucosamine daily and many stopped using hang boards as a result. I developed some short-lived elbow issues and my feet are permanently deformed after all the tiny shoe torture. The incremental amount of caution in lieu of risky big & quick gains is a "learn the hard way" type of lesson. Wisdom is strength anyways, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Duces Tecum]

This issue may not be how tightly a person can close their fists at all. In my experience the tighter I hold the pistol the less of my hand is pressed against the gun. I evolved into the strong hand holding snugly, as though one were holding a small bird, not to kill it but to keep it from escaping. The allowed the trigger finger to relax and the firing stroke to be more sensitive. The support hand was kept a little forward so the muscle at the base of the support thumb filled the grip between the ends of the strong hand fingers and the base of the strong hand thumb. Unlike the strong hand, the support hand squeezed pretty much as hard as it could.

For me, it's not how hard I can grip, it's how much flesh is firmly pressed against the gun.

[buckskinjoe]

The main reason for holding the gun very tightly and as high and far forward as possible is to control recoil: minimize muzzle rise and have the front sight track straight up and straight back down to alignment but no further. It is not a death grip that produces tremors, but it is very tight. Bob Vogel, and other top shooters, do not strive for full hand contact on the gun; rather, the hands are "torqued" toward each other, which rolls the elbows out and sacrifices full hand contact at the bottom of the grip for better control higher on the gun and resultant improved recoil control.

[ToddG]

Bob Vogel, and other top shooters, do not strive for full hand contact on the gun;

Actually, quite a few still do. Bob's grip was truly unique when he started doing it.

Having played with it a bit, I think one of the biggest benefits of Vogel's grip technique is that it puts a lot of stabilizing force directly over the trigger. That helps counter various errors in the trigger press.

[buckskinjoe]

Actually, quite a few still do. Bob's grip was truly unique when he started doing it.

Having played with it a bit, I think one of the biggest benefits of Vogel's grip technique is that it puts a lot of stabilizing force directly over the trigger. That helps counter various errors in the trigger press.

Agree, but Bob isn't the only one, even though he was first.

Hadn't thought of force over the trigger--interesting observation and food for thought. Thanks!

When talking with Bob in May at the Indiana SWAT Officer's conference, both on the range and at dinner, his stated reason for the grip was to get as much pressure as high and as far forward as possible. He said, if he could, he would hold the pistol at the very end of the frame, right below the muzzle.

I must say, emulating Bob's grip is quite a challenge; it forces the left wrist, hand and digits to go where they have not gone before.
Building the neural circuit to assume the grip automatically will take some time!

[JHC]

I must say, emulating Bob's grip is quite a challenge; it forces the left wrist, hand and digits to go where they have not gone before.
Building the neural circuit to assume the grip automatically will take some time!

Yeah I guess so. After DocGKR's Vogel AAR and some extra details from him, then GJM's comments from training with Vogel - the torque grip got a lot of attention on a few forums. I have not been able to get a feel for it yet based on descriptions.

[ToddG]

Agree, but Bob isn't the only one, even though he was first.

Right. That's why I said it was unique when he started doing it. Plenty of folks have copied it or adopted some of the concepts from it into their own technique.

[ToddG]

Yeah I guess so. After DocGKR's Vogel AAR and some extra details from him, then GJM's comments from training with Vogel - the torque grip got a lot of attention on a few forums. I have not been able to get a feel for it yet based on descriptions.

Even after talking with both DocGKR and GJM about the grip offline, I still didn't "get it" until I actually took a class from Vogel and watched his explanation. I really think it's impossible to put it into words. OTOH, if he were so inclined, I think Vogel could put together a 3min YouTube video that would demonstrate it extremely well.

[TumblinDown]

While not as high and forward as the pictures I've seen of Bob Vogel, I always thought this was a good description of the how's and why's of the grip:



Either way, I do recognize that this is something I don't do consistently enough. More dry fire practice for me!