2,000 Round Challenge

[Doc_Glock]

Pistol: G17 Gen 4 Chopped Grip
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: Many different types, 115, 124, and 147 grain.
Dates of testing: 9/16-7/17
Total rounds fired: 2163
Stoppages: Two. Both PPU 115 ammunition in close relation to each other.
Malfunctions: zero
Breakages: zero

Comments: I purchased this gun new as a bedside gun, installed a TLR-1, Defoor sights and rarely shot it. I decided to run the 2k challenge with it so see how it shot with the flashlight. I also chopped the grip to accept G19 magazines, and installed a minus connector. It ran simply great and very rarely had btf issues, and then only with the last round of a mag. The malfunctions were interesting. They occurred in within a couple magazines of each other and I suspect it was the ammo. In one case, I had a very light recoiling round that ejected, but short stroked and did not pick up the next round so the chamber was empty. Soon thereafter I had a round with a startling large flash and report, but weak recoil. That case was found in the chamber and did not eject. The case looked fine. Both those were in the first 300 rounds and the gun did not miss a beat after that.

I also shot my best ever 25 yard group with this gun toward the end of the test. This will be cleaned, flashlight removed, lubed, tested with more carry ammo and become the new carry gun.

[Francis]

Good shooting!

[pangloss]

Pistol: Gen4 G19 (in gray!) purchased new on 04/01/2017
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: 124 gr Speer Lawman, 124 gr Aguila, 124 gr Freedom Munitions, 115 gr Blazer Aluminum, 124 gr Winchester Nato, 124 Speer Gold Dot.
Dates of Testing: 04/08/2017 to 07/20/2017
Total Rounds Fired: 2074
Stoppages: 1 (Stovepipe occurred while shooting support hand only drills on Day 2 of Tom Givens' Combative Pistol Class. Round count at stoppage was ~750.)
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Notes and Observations:
- Pistol was not cleaned after purchase but was lubricated with WeaponShield Gun Oil.
- Prior to starting the test, the Gen4 G19 trigger bar was replaced with a new Gen4 G17 trigger bar. Safety plunger was replaced with a new Apex Safety Plunger. Gadget was installed. Factory sights were replaced with Ameriglo GL-956 sights (which unfortunately seem now to have disappeared from Ameriglo's website).
- Initially, ejection was weak and erratic, and I was experiencing one to two brass to the face events (BTF) per every box of ammo. After shooting 150 rounds, I installed a White Sound Defense HRED, which reduced the frequency of BTF. Near the end of the the test, the BTF frequency was less than one per hundred rounds fired, except when shooting Blazer Aluminum. When shooting Freedom Munitions 124 gr, ejection was generally less robust than when shooting Speer, Aguila, or Winchester ammo.

[SilentSc0rch]

I was working on doing the 2,000 through my Gen3 19 when it stovepiped around 750 rounds into the test.

Ammo: LAX factory ammunition

It's hard for me to blame the ammo considering it's worked perfectly for well over 1,000 through my main PPQ, and I made sure to only use known-good factory mags. AND the extractor, extractor spring, and ejector are less than 2,000 rounds old. AND the RSA is less than 7,500 rounds old. Come to think of it, I don't think this gun has ever gone more than 1,200 without a cleaning or a stoppage...

[MSparks909]

You don't have to stop the test just because of a malfunction; it's just a data point to include at the end.

[Doc_Glock]

Pistol: Walther PPQ M1
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: All sorts of 115, 124, and 147 grain ammo. At least ten types.
Dates of testing: 4/2016-7/2017
Total rounds fired: 2,001
Modifications: None
Stoppages: 7
-2 times in the first 120 rounds the slide locked back when not empty. Attributed to grip. Swapped to large grip insert and it never happened again.
-1 time failed to feed due to 124 grain Speer Lawman stuck in the magazine. Around round 800. This partially full magazine had previously been dropped, hitting the bottom, jostling the rounds and I think jamming them in the mag. Never happened again.

-4 times failed to lock back on empty. All in the last 300 rounds. I attribute to lack of lubrication.
Not counted above:
-4 Brass to face around round 1000, never happened again likely ammo.
-8 times in the last 300 rounds, it auto loaded first round from slide lock on mag insertion. I think the slide lock was getting sticky with use as nothing seems to be broken.
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Comments: This is an outstandingly easy gun to shoot that has been abused in my hands. It really grew on me, and it grew on me even more when I detail stripped the slide at the end of this test and found how intelligently designed it is. It is every bit as easy to strip as a Glock, but seems much better made. They will drop the striker if hit or dropped on the rear of the slide, and the rounds can jam in the magazine if a full one is dropped. At the end of the test after cleaning and lubrication, the trigger measured in at 4lbs pulling from just below the middle. For now this is a keeper, but probably not a carrier due to the striker drop issue. If I ever start to game with a gun it will be a PPQ.

[SilentSc0rch]

It might sound dumb but I actually ride the slide release more on a Glock than I do on a PPQ. It's funny considering the huge size difference between those two levers.

[octagon]

2,000 Round Challenge
Pistol: CZ P10C
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: Blazer Brass 115gr and 124gr, Winchester White box 124gr, Federal American Eagle 124gr, Hornady 135gr,+P, Hornady 124gr JHP
Dates of testing: 07/19/17 - 08/01/17
Total rounds fired: 2039
Stoppages: One: Failure to go fully into battery due to deformed case (see picture below)
Malfunctions: zero
Breakages: zero

Comments:

The only stoppage was due to a deformed case. This happened in the first few rounds of the session and resulted in the gun not firing as it was out of battery approx. 1/2-3/4". I slowly cleared the round and upon inspection found the case rim was damaged.

Attachment 18649

Attachment 18670

No other stoppages or malfunctions occurred while shooting. While I don't consider it a malfunction the slide does auto forward upon firm insertion of a loaded magazine. In each case a round was chambered. This occurred approx 70% of the time overall and 98-99% of the time a firm,fast reload was performed. I used the right and left side slide lever to chamber a round upon loading or reloading 90% of the time to help break in the initially stiff lever and it is my most often used method to drop the slide. Today I used the slingshot method for most of the time I wasn't shooting the FAST drill to see if there were any issues. regardless of which method I used I had no issues using the controls nor with chambering of a round.

Ejection has been good to great from the first round to the last. I did get hit with 2 -5 rounds during the 2000 round challenge but each appeared to be due to the spent casing hitting an obstruction after ejection and bouncing back into me.

The trigger started off good but had some gritty-ness in the trigger stroke in the take up to the wall. Once the wall was hit the gritty-ness was gone. The pull feels approx 4.5-5lbs but I don't have a trigger gauge so just comparing it to known Glock trigger pull weight in standard and - connector forms. The trigger has become smoother in feel but still has a spring compressing sound while pulling to the wall. The trigger also has some stacking but very little only noticed by me when I am dry firing looking for trigger issues. The trigger safety lever does stick out from being flush with the trigger face and I did notice a small callous on my trigger finger lower part of the pad. Overall travel distance is a touch more than my flat face trigger gen 4 Glock 19. The take up is longer but the pull after the wall is hit is less and the overtravel is noticeably less. The reset is very similar to my Glock but with less force pressing the trigger back to the reset point and a quieter click when reset is reached. The reset distance is also noticeably less than my Glock.

The controls started off fairly stiff when used in dry fire and only slightly less so when live firing. The controls smoothed out and required less effort to use quickly. I have had no issues using the left or right side magazine release button or slide lock/release lever. Currently the left side controls( normal used by right handed shooters right thumb) are slightly easier to use than the right side. This is very likely due to the higher amount of use. The extractor that is shaped to work as a loaded chamber indicator works well in that capacity as I have never had a false indication of a loaded chamber when it wasn't or vice versa. This is the method I have used for years on Glocks and I very rarely do a press check.

Grip texture and shape feel very grippy and comfortable when shooting or manipulating the gun or controls. I have had some tenderness in my strong side palm between thumb and palm. I have gotten used to it and likely won't change anything related to grip. I feel I use less pressure than I normally use on my Glock 19 using the same ammunition doing the same drills. Reach to the magazine button and slide lever are shorter than my Glock 19. I still have to adjust my grip to press the mag button but less than I do with a gen 4 Glock 19 and none to release the slide with my strong hand thumb. I did get a blister on my support hand thumb on the side where it contacts the frame in a thumbs forward grip in my second shooting session. This may have been caused by or exasperated by an extended shooting session and/or when shooting a Beretta APX by the APX disassembly lever. Today's session I did notice the old blister area( 2 or 3 days of healing) getting tender by the frame texture in front of the disassembly lever. The trigger guard lip and texture on the front is more aggressive than on Glocks. Lastly the shape of the grip to trigger guard or undercut area is shaped and textured to be more comfortable than Glocks for me and I had no tenderness,or normal blistering/rawness of my middle finger second knuckle(Glock knuckle) which is a welcome difference.

Magazines load comfortably and without excess effort even to full capacity(15). No sharp edges. They are shaped to allow for easy insertion. The mags also jump out of the gun when the mag button is pushed much more aggressively than any Glocks I have used even when the gun is not held perpendicular to the ground. The drag between the mag and inside of the grip is less than Glocks. The grip magwell shape makes mag insertions at speed smooth and easier than Glocks and I felt it was smoother to do a reload. The red colored follower is a nice addition for indicating an empty mag when looking into the gun at slide lock. The loaded capcity holes on the rear of the magazine are usable to indicate how many rounds are in the mag by seeing brass or shell casing in the hole that corresponds with the number of rounds in that mag. I never quite got the Glock mag capacity holes down to where I knew for sure or trusted them to be exact.

Sights are three dot, metal post and notch patridge style with clean edges and dots. The light between front sight and rear notch is OK for speed and accuracy. I prefer a high visibility front sight (yellow/green) and plain rear sight with more light around the front sight but there is no rush for me to change them until plenty of options are available. The sights were close to POA/POI out of the box and only shot slightly to the right and a hair high. I shot at 50 yards today on steel (10" X 18") at was hitting approx 80% even standing SHO and WHO unsupported as well as normal 2 hand grip. This may not be impressive to many but I am a weak long distance shooter beyond 15-20 yards with any handgun.

Below are pictures of the field stripped gun after the challenge.

Attachment 18651

Attachment 18652

Attachment 18653

Attachment 18654

Attachment 18655

Attachment 18656

Attachment 18657

Attachment 18658

Attachment 18660

Very little wear of the finish anywhere on the gun even the magazines only show shininess to the matte finish even after repeated drops onto concrete on the range. No bare metal,rust or scratches anywhere on the gun.

Overview:

Overall I really like the gun and am pleasantly surprised it ran well and works so well for me. I have been an ardent Glock Fanboy for years and pretty much only carried on and off duty a Glock 22 or Glock 23 since 1991. This gun may change my daily carry. In every area I consider, the P10 C works as good or better than my normal Glock 19. I don't use forward slide serrations and I am right handed so the ambi controls mean little for me unless practicing weak hand gun skills. However the grip shape,texture and control layout plus trigger reach just make shooting and manipulating it easier, more comfortable and more consistent. The details are what makes this gun so nice for me.

The gun is not perfect but I do have to agree with the CZ advertisement of "Improving Upon Perfection" It improved upon almost all things compared to a Glock 19 out of the box to out of the box. That said I would like to see a few changes to improve the P10 C even more.

Trigger safety lever fit flush with trigger face. Even smoother trigger pull during the pull to the wall. Smoother feel to mag button and easier release of slide when using slide release lever on both sides. Better sights. These are all small details that are already good enough to not be a problem or distraction just areas that could be better still.

I plan to use the gun in an course this Sat with Greg Ellifritz Close Quarters Shooting which has a focus on retention positions and shooting from unconventional positions as well as rapid access and engagement. If the gun continues to perform well I will clean it thoroughly and try more defensive ammo choices to find one that is accurate and groups well where I want it. Then I will start carrying it and see how it does.

[SilentSc0rch]

Excellent write-up. You definitely beat me to it, as I'm just 804 rounds in as of yesterday. The only minor complaint I have is the same as everyone else's: the mag release works but it's stiff. On the bright side, my P10 has already made it past the point where my 19 chocked (FTE around 750).

[gruntjim]

Glock 17 Gen 4

Pistol: Glock G-17 Gen 4
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: Assorted 124 and 147 grain HST, +P Critical Duty, WWB and Perfecta
Dates of Testing: 4/15/15 to 6/15/17
Total Rounds Fired: 2,050

Stoppages: zero
Malfunctions: zero
Breakages: zero

NOTES: The only mods are i-Dot Pros, and an extended slide stop lever. This pistol has been unearthly for its accuracy.