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Thread: Atlanta PD orders 2,300 Gen 4 Glock 22 Pistols.

  1. #131
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    Texaspoff,

    Thanks for posting those...very informative. There is a lot more monkey motion going on in there than I'd have thought.



    While the Glock is the king of simplicity, just how complex are the 320 and VP9 as compared to other service pistols which are not Glock? Classic Sig? Beretta? How many of those are suitable for "owner/operator" use v. agency/armorer supported?
    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Depends upon the skill/courage level of the "owner/operator"......

    The bottom line here is, its not rocket science. OEM armorer training is generally not available to nonmilitary/non-LE individuals, so many times we're on our own. If you have the patience and the wallet, you can learn your chosen pistol without a prohibitive amount of effort. But there is usually more than one way to skin the cat. If a part breaks, okay, you gotta replace it. But if you drop the gun in a mud hole, or salt water, etc., you can... usually... handle it by field-stripping, thoroughly rinsing the piece in fresh, clear water, then douching it down COMPLETELY with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. That stuff will displace all of the water/moisture; it will also remove every trace of lubricant, so you must carefuly re-lube the piece and take pains to prevent corrosion. No doubt you will hear all sort of moans and groans about this (using AUTOMOTIVE products in your firearm??? HERESY!!) and other drivel. Take it for what its worth to you. I have done this numerous times, and the only caveat (aside from ensuring that you bought NON-chlorinated product- the chlorinated stuff will attack polymer frames) is beware of plastic parts; as in, don't expose them to the spray. I have done Glock, HK, Walter, S&W, & Ruger polymer frames & pieces/parts with no ill effects.

    .
    Fully concur. My sentence above was somewhat facetious, which may not have come across.

    It seems we are so used to the Glock model of SFA, that it shocks our sensibilities when newer SFAs are more complex than their DA, hammer-fired predecessors.
    Last edited by Chuck Whitlock; 12-01-2015 at 01:27 PM.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
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  2. #132
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    Since I'd brought up the 250 for comparison:

    http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...P250-43398.htm

    (from the look of the gripframe, this appears to be the Gen 1, FWIW.)
    Last edited by Chuck Whitlock; 12-01-2015 at 01:36 PM.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by rsa-otc View Post
    Having worked on S&W Gen 2 & 3 pistols I feel your pain. Whenever possible I stayed FAR away from the internals of the frame. Replacing the Ejector wasn't too bad, but the whole sear group still gives me the willies.

    The M&P series is a whole different animal. They did their home work and it isn't bad. The only issues I've experienced has been the original small sear return spring is difficult due to it's small size and my meat hook hands. The trigger return spring can be difficult to snare even with the Apex provided tool, but I made my own tool and it isn't any problem at all now.

    I can't speek to the other makes since I had no experiance with them other than simple field stripping.
    I initially found the M&P very frustrating because of the trigger return spring as well. Overall, its pretty simple, but not necessarily easy. The Apex slave pin included in their kits made it much more manageable.

    I just converted my P30 V3 to a V0 LEM. That took about 5 hours...but if I did it again, probably 10 minutes. There's like 5 parts to line up with 1 pin. Lining them up wasn't the hard part...figuring out the relationship to the sear and other parts took awhile. Multiple wrong ways to do it. Trial and error. After that though its not hard.

  4. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by JDB View Post
    There's like 5 parts to line up with 1 pin. Lining them up wasn't the hard part...figuring out the relationship to the sear and other parts took awhile. Multiple wrong ways to do it. Trial and error. After that though its not hard.
    The trick there is to utilize a 3/32 punch as a slave pin, from the right side.

    .

  5. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post

    It seems we are so used to the Glock model of SFA, that it shocks our sensibilities when newer SFAs are more complex than their DA, hammer-fired predecessors.
    Which raises a question--is that complexity worth it? Since I have to act as my own armorer, the complexity of these pistols is a big barrier to me adopting them. I am sure that I could master the reassembly with enough time, but why bother when I find Glocks to be perfectly acceptable and and easy to maintain?

    For the average shooter, who will never fire a pistol enough to need to detail strip it, those concerns don't matter. But for those of us who need to be able to detail strip our guns, complexity is a bad thing, and my guess is that will keep Glock in business for a long time.

  6. #136
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    I don't buy the explanation that to get a good trigger out of the box the gun has to be complicated. You may need higher quality control or a few more finishing steps but for a few bucks more Glock could easily produce their guns with a much better trigger from the factory.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I don't buy the explanation that to get a good trigger out of the box the gun has to be complicated. You may need higher quality control or a few more finishing steps but for a few bucks more Glock could easily produce their guns with a much better trigger from the factory.
    +1 You can see that checking triggers on a half dozen in the store; from quite good to rough.

    I personally count simplicity as a feature.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #138
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I don't buy the explanation that to get a good trigger out of the box the gun has to be complicated. You may need higher quality control or a few more finishing steps but for a few bucks more Glock could easily produce their guns with a much better trigger from the factory.
    In order to get a better trigger on just about any firearm, all you need to do is fire a few thousand rounds through it. Of course, that may impede one's sense of instant gratification and one may have to work a little harder to be a dark force ninja on the 3X5 card.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  9. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    In order to get a better trigger on just about any firearm, all you need to do is fire a few thousand rounds through it. Of course, that may impede one's sense of instant gratification and one may have to work a little harder to be a dark force ninja on the 3X5 card.
    I hear this a lot, but I respectfully disagree. At a dime a round, for two thousand rounds, if you have to pay for your own, that's $200 of substandard practice. Paying part of that, or doing it yourself, makes the practice better and certainly sooner. For me, breaking in a trigger sounds a lot like "fire it a few hundred rounds before you complain about unreliabiliity."

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    In order to get a better trigger on just about any firearm, all you need to do is fire a few thousand rounds through it. Of course, that may impede one's sense of instant gratification and one may have to work a little harder to be a dark force ninja on the 3X5 card.
    I'm doing that now with a 7.25 lb trigger G26. Not just any mind you but BATTLEFIELD GREEN!!! It shoots lights out though.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

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