Why the P30

[LangdonTactical]

What back strap and side panel size are you using, Ernest? Reason I am asking is this: I just pulled out mine from a holster, cleared it and I've been sitting wondering how it is possible to get your strong hand so high that you get a hammer bite? I can't even if I tried.

I second everyone on you getting back to teaching. I'd make a flight again in no time.

I run the large back strap with the small side panels. I have tried several different combos over the year or so that I have been running the P30 and that seems to he the best combo for me. I have pretty big hands, so that may be the issue, and I grip guns very, very high! I have to radius the back of the slide on Berettas or they will cut me as well. I had the same issue with hammer bite on my Sig 220s when I was shooting those. I would put a really big radius on those hammers as well.

Thanks for the vote on teaching. I am looking forward to it for sure.

[LangdonTactical]

It's not that far fetched (my 17+1 9mm carry gun):



(You can go smaller in grip to get a more G19/P30 length, go without the RMR, or without a threaded barrel, of course)

That is a really cool looking gun. The issue I have there is I have already been down that road. Long story, but lets just say it does not make you happy when you outshoot your own $2000 STI with a $600 Beretta

[JHC]

Editted to remove the congratulatory tone thinking it was a newish shooter that was sharing their process of choosing their pistol. [a pistol I've sampled lightly and found just "OK"].

Just a bump to display my edit and shame.

[Comedian]

That is a really cool looking gun. The issue I have there is I have already been down that road. Long story, but lets just say it does not make you happy when you outshoot your own $2000 STI with a $600 Beretta

The same for me. My $1800 STI Tactical in 9mm was getting outdone by my $800 Sig P226.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm with Mr. Langdon on this one for many of the same reasons, but let me add a couple.

As noted, the guns work. I now have 6, and they all run without issues and pretty much are consistent. The only issue is I have not gotten my prefered sight set up of a 10-8 rear and Dawson front on all of them. I shoot much better with that combo over the factory sights.

People management. While I no longer really do this daily for a living, I have not only had several thousand folks at the end of a pistol during my time as an LEO, but have also seen what happens when people manage a crisis with a pistol in hand in dynamic, chaotic, stressful encounters with a lot of rapidly changing inputs. I like a trigger with a lot of take up for working these situations. In the past take up was combined with weight and a change of actions which made the shooting side of the equation tough if the situation ever got to the shooting part. I have only had to shoot two of the thousands I have had at the end of a gun and I am a statistic of a couple percent. I love the LEM (especially the TLG set up) for a defensive carry pistol or one that is used in the "prisoner taking business" instead of the "gunfighting business".

Additionally, on a hammer fired gun used with visually verified presentation, you can "see" your trigger press when your vision is tunneling and your ability to feel is lessening. With the LEM, you can also see your reset. I like this. Not a deal breaker over a striker fired pistol, but a simple plus in my mind.

Magazines work. I have a ton of them and have yet to have to dump any due to causing malfunctions or spring weakness issues. This has been a good thing as they can hard to find at times.

They work well in the entire cycle of operation.....by far the most consistent extracting and ejecting modern polymer pistol out there right now.

Good size. They seem to simply fit everyone well and a very good balance of a duty sized gun that can be easily carried concealed. They also seem to be able to attain that mythical "Browning HiPower feel". You can tailor them to that just right feel and attain proper alignment with them. I have also found that the way the guns feel in your hand helps for retention shooting. I have shot some amazing groups from retention with mine that I attribute to how I have my grips set up and the feel of them (I use small all the way around).

They are the most consistently, mechanically accurate 9mm's out there compared to the competition. They all seem to be tack drivers.

You also get the benefit as being seen as a sophisticated individual with exceptional taste in fine things...like HK's....

While there are certainly negatives to the P30, I feel the positives far outweigh them. The LEM took me a good bit of time to really "get", but I shoot them well now.

[BLR]

They also seem to be able to attain that mythical "Browning HiPower feel".

Ummm, P35s are real.

[Wayne Dobbs]

First of all, it's great to see Ernest Langdon here. His body of work in defensive firearms training speaks for itself and I hope we see lots of input here from him.

As Nyeti's business and training partner, I've come to be astounded by the P30 and its reliability and accuracy. The aforementioned features that enable threat management at a higher level than the striker guns become apparent the more you work with them. After enduring extraction related problems with several Glocks and later being one of Randy Lee's beta testers for his Glock extractor, I started testing other popular service pistol's extraction function with a more critical and discerning eye. It was not an encouraging journey. Most of the popular polymer service guns display varying levels of unsatisfactory extractor function. Most of these guns eject by use of the feed stack in the magazine due to that poor extractor function, which results in fired cases being presented to ejectors in varying attitudes or in bad cases, not being held by the extractor at all when it's time for ejection to take place. The P30 is an extreme exception to this poor paradigm.

In some serious testing that we did on P30 extractor function we found what all service pistols should be providing: consistent, excellent (and I should say perfect) function. In one test segment, we did 75 consecutive test shots with no failures and consistent ejection to the same spot. The test is conducted with a loaded chamber and no magazine on board. The shot is fired and the extraction/ejection performance is noted. The fired case should eject OUTSIDE the pistol and to a relatively consistent location. They should NOT eject down the magazine well or trap between the breech face and barrel hood. That's what should happen. The fact is that most of the popular polymer guns don't do this and are in fact running on the ragged edge with regard to extractor/ejector function. Go and try your favorite one out and see what you experience. It's not confidence inspiring.

Despite the price, the P30 set up with a LEM trigger seems to be about as good as it gets in today's service pistol market.

[TCinVA]

Interesting note about extraction there, Mr. Dobbs. That's something most people won't ever understand.

[JohnN]

The only thing I have done to either gun is put the TLG trigger set up in there and change the sights. I have taken the sharp edges off the back corner of the hammer on the gun I shoot the most, as it does tap my hand just a little every once in a while (I grip the gun very high and the extra skin in the webbing of my hand sometime builds up just enough to get in the path of the hammer).

Likewise, I found the large back-strap to give me the best results but seemed to start bleeding within 10 rounds. Changed to the medium back-strap with large side panels and had no further issues with hammer bite.

[Dagga Boy]

Let me further expand on the extraction issue. People often criticize, or question, Wayne and I about how much importance we place on these pistols working well during the entire cycle of operation. Specifically, "why is extraction performance so important when my xxxxx pistol ejects okay when I have a magazine in it", and "who cares where the brass goes....it only hits me in the face once in awhile". The way a pistol extracts and ejects is not as important when you standing upright in a solid two handed firing grip and slaying evil cardboard and paper Goblins under blue skies and cotton ball clouds with nary a care in the world. When your pistol is literally running on the ragged edge of extractor performance under these conditions, think about how it will being working when you are laying in a gutter covered in blood, injured, and firing one handed (maybe your support hand, or with only a few fingers of the support hand). I really do not want to be clearing a failure to extract malfunction under these conditions. If that is not a worry, then it is irrelevant. I tend to hope for the best scenario and plan for the worst. I have sold off all but one of my Glock pistols that has poor extraction issues and replaced them with P30's. I still have more Glocks, but the numbers are getting close. I didn't think anything would move me away from Glock 9mm's pistols, the extraction issues have.