Originally Posted by oldtexan
Would changing the hammer spring alone do much of anything? Say in a DA/SA gun?
Would changing the hammer spring alone do much of anything? Say in a DA/SA gun?
I don't have any experience with the V3 DA/SA, but I think it already has the light hammer spring (HK part 214300), as opposed to the heavy hammer spring (part 214695) used in some other versions. The Trigger Return Spring IIRC is also the light one.
The Firing Pin Block spring in the V3 DA/SA is the heavy one, however. I have no idea what difference changing that to the light one would bring.
I think that the main reason that the DA/SA V3 has a heavy DA pull (roughly 12 lbs) even with a light hammer spring is because in DA mode you are overcoming the full power of the spring only with your trigger finger. In the LEM guns (which is what I have) an internal 'hammer' (but not the external hammer) is pre-cocked by the slide movement after the previous shot. This pre-cocking of the internal hammer reduces the trigger pull somewhat (to somewhere between 4.5 and 8 lbs depending on the particular LEM version).
If you want a lighter trigger in a p30, I would recommend one of the LEM versions. You get a long pull with about .6" trigger travel to give some protection against unintentional finger movements (from a startle reflex or sympathetic movement), a consistent manageable trigger weight of about 4.5, 6, or 7-8 lbs depending on the specific spring setup, and no decocker to have to remember to work under stress.
Or if you prefer the DA/SA you could go with one of Ernest Langdon's V3 guns over at Langdon Tactical. IIRC he advertises a DA trigger as low as 7 lbs.
Last edited by oldtexan; 10-12-2022 at 05:04 PM.
The DA/SA does not come with a light spring.
Replacing the hammer spring with a USP compact match spring lowers the DA a little over 8 pounds there is still some creep in The DA pull.
Thanks for correcting that.
No worries I have two P30s and 3 P2000 that I habe done that. I have Done to 2 p30s and 2 p2000 with the nickel plated
SKU: HKP-01410 Match Hammer Spring For USP, USPC, HK45- $18.95
SKU: HKP-01955 Firing Pin Block Spring New Style Light $7.74
SKU: HKP-01811 Enhanced Match Flat Sear Spring Nickel Plated $8.95
This is what I use.
There is the lazy wolf springs that is below but I have never used one.
SKU: HKP-18147 HK Reduced Power Hammer Spring 11 lb. $9.95
I use the Lazy Wolf spring, no problems. I use the same setup as you; HK match hammer spring/same weight hammer spring from aftermarket and the light firing pin block spring; I don't use the "match" sear spring though. After dryfire and live fire practice, there's no appreciable feel difference between the nickel plated and phosphated sear springs once the phosphated one gets a thousand or so presses on it. The only real appreciable difference is the nickel spring will probably resist saltwater corrosion longer. If you're not jumping into the ocean on the regular, you'll probably be fine with the regular spring..
Edited - on USPs I used to use the nickel spring until I got a used USP45. I replaced the hammer spring in it with a match weight one but didn't touch the sear spring and I really couldn't tell the difference between guns with the nickel spring and the used gun with a worn regular spring in both DA or SA modes. Yeah the nickel sear spring is cheap (relatively) but unless you really need the anti-corrosion properties of it, it's not a necessary "upgrade" IMO...just use the thing and the regular one will wear in.
Last edited by Evil_Ed; 10-13-2022 at 05:15 AM.
A couple of years ago I tried the hammer spring that goes into a USP 45 Elite in my standard USP 45. I had the Elite for a bit but sold it. And it had a bunch of factory internal upgrades over the standard USP 45. I was curious to see if a simple hammer spring change would affect the trigger pull. I was disappointed in the results, especially in SA. Due to the lighter hammer spring, I was able to feel the creep in SA mode. Very distracting. And not an appreciable difference in DA mode. I put the original spring back in.
By contrast, when I put the Beretta factory "D" spring in my PX4 Storm the results were amazing. The DA mode was much lighter which contributed to a stable sight picture. The SA action was somewhat improved, but the DA mode was fantastic. I don't have a trigger gauge to give actual pounds of pull. It's 100% reliable too.
One of the many pearls of wisdom (thanks P-F) I have learned here on this website is that one can get away with a lighter hammer spring if the hammer arc is longer. I continue to learn daily!
I agree: V3 already has the light hammer spring (214300) and light trigger return spring as it comes from the factory.
There is a hammer spring which is even lighter than 214300. It's HK part 215694 (USP match hammer spring), but I have not tried it in my P30. The P30 does not come with the match hammer spring from the factory in any trigger variant.
hkpro.com/threads/ultimate-hammer-spring-infographic-trying-to-give-back.430746/post-3116170:
I measured the following trigger pull weights for the P30 V3 (just looked it up in my notes, FPBS = firing pin block spring):
- SA trigger pull weight is 5.4 lb (2470 g) with the heavy FPBS and 4.5 lb (2060 g) with the light one.
- For DA, I find only the weight with the light FPBS: 9.3 lb (4200 g).
As far as I remember, before switching to the light FPBS, the DA trigger pull weight was also about 1 lb heavier (same difference as for SA).
My favorite trigger variant for the P30 is V4 CH. V4 is LEM with medium trigger pull weight, CH means a variant for Swiss police with shorter trigger pre-travel (compared to V4).
Last edited by P30; 10-13-2022 at 12:29 PM.
Earlier I posted chronograph data showing the P30 was achieving similar velocities as my G17 gen 4 (G17.4) with my carry ammo. As requested I collected more data and am overall impressed by how the P30 across the board appears to hang with the G17. I brought the G45 since it has the same barrel as a G19 and despite the P30 being under 4" length it tends to chrono like a 4.5 inch barrel. There is also a subtle but measurable decrease in MV going from G17.4 to G17.5. This is presumably due to change in rifling. These are pretty easy for me to acquire so if anyone wants to see a specific comparison or ammo type let me know.
Data are reported as MV / ES / SD
Underwood extreme defender 90 gr +P (my carry load)
5 shots each
G17.4: 1485 / 53 / 18
P07: 1447 / 24 / 8
P30: 1480 / 46 / 16
===
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ
5 shots each
Beretta 92: 1120 / 47 / 17
G17.5: 1096 / 51 / 20
G17.4: 1121 / 9 / 3
G45: 1087 / 50 / 17
P30: 1112 / 50 / 18
P30L: 1114 / 34 / 13
===
AAC 124 gr FMJ
5 shots each
Beretta 92: 1106 / 31 / 11
G17.5: 1073 / 85 / 29
G17.4: 1115 / 30 / 12
G45: 1068 / 70 / 25
P30: 1108 / 49 / 16
P30L: 1124 / 44 / 15
===
HST 147 gr standard pressure
5 shots each
G17.5: 956 / 49 / 16
P30: 981 / 34 / 12
P30L: 1000 / 23 / 8
===
Underwood Xtreme defender 90gr +P
5 shots each
G17.5: 1471 / 49 / 18
G17.4: 1487 / 23 / 10
P30: 1453 / 31 / 10
P30L: 1495 / 43 / 16
I've now received my P30sk, P30, and P30L from Langdon Tactical (all LEM with the flat trigger and "light" trigger setup"). I also got my second 509T delivered today (the first one had to go back to Holosun because it had REALLY bad magnification) and got that mounted up.
I've only had a chance to shoot the P30sk so far, but so far I'm very pleased with all of them. The flat trigger really works well for me as I hated the plastic flexing on the stock trigger and it makes the length of pull just slightly further which feels great. I didn't have too much trouble short stroking the reset on a stock LEM v1, but this is definitely an improvement and I really can't tell much of a difference in reset between this and a Glock unless I'm really focusing on that. I really prefer the paddle release to the button type, but still need to train myself to get used to that. The factory texture on the full size models is so nice, and such an upgrade from Glocks. Of course, my favorite part is having that hammer for reholstering. All of my Glocks had SCDs, but the hammer just gives more feedback, takes less effort to block, and has a greater margin of error since it has more travel.
I still don't love using a Chinese optic, but I do have to admit that the window on the 509T is nicer than the Acros I was using on my Glocks. The glass definitely isn't as nice, but it definitely feels less like looking through a tube.
The only cons I've found so far are the BIUS are BARELY visible through the optic. I wish they were able to get the 509T just a hair lower so the sights were a bit more visible, but I think they'll work just fine for back up purposes and I'd probably prefer this over even taller irons. Also, the while the cerakote finish looks amazing, it is just a bit slicker than the factory finish and makes the shallow front serrations a bit harder to grip. Maybe that will improve with time and wear.
I'm so used to Glocks that its going to take a bit to get used to, but I really love the peace of mind these give me for AIWB. Even if I'm never able to shoot these quite as quick as I could my Glocks, I think that trade off is worth increases in safety for my uses.
Reply With Quote
