The final version of the IDPA rule book posted.

[PPGMD]

What would you consider "full tactical"? I'm genuinely curious to hear your vision of such an experience. I can't even imagine what could be called that.

It would have to be a national match, it would need tactical in the name, and we would want to filter out some of the idiots so it would be by invitation only.

So I am thinking National Tactical Invitational.

But they had a good idea of a match, a mixture of live fire, and FoF training events. Yes it would never be a truly objective event, but then again neither is IDPA completely objective. But when dealing with roleplayers you actually have to use sound tactics.

Even the most aggressive FoF has rules and limitations.

True but typically those rules are safety rules.

[ToddG]

I don't like extra mag pouches either, though I would find it less offensive than using a different holster.

Agree 100% on that. There are other things about USPSA that keep me from wanting to shoot it, while most of the things that kept me from wanting to shoot IDPA went away with the new rules... except, obviously, the aiwb thing.

\The Tomahawk light I was talking is about the size of a typical flashlight. It is sort of a cross between the old school angle light and a one cell Surefire with a combat ring. So it isn't impractical.

I'm quite familiar with it. Clyde Caceres, who I was dealing with since the late 90's when he was at Crimson Trace, was one of the major players behind it. Apart from being less concealable and far more expensive, they're great. And really, I wouldn't have a problem with them being legal for IDPA. But given that 99% of the people out there don't even know they exist I'm not too worried about the people who feel disenfranchised by their exclusion.

And besides which if people realized how well WML dominate low light perhaps more would consider finding a way to carry it.

I know a number of guys who are certified instructors for Surefire Institute and Strategos (which was started by the guy who started the original Surefire Institute). None of them carry a WML when they're carrying concealed. So I think it's a mistake to suggest that people don't realize the benefits of a WML... or the benefits of the alternatives thereto.

After all it look IPSC to move red dots into the main stream.

The military was using red dots before USPSA existed, actually. And they're still far, far from "mainstream" in terms of handguns.

So I am thinking National Tactical Invitational.

But they had a good idea of a match, a mixture of live fire, and FoF training events. Yes it would never be a truly objective event, but then again neither is IDPA completely objective. But when dealing with roleplayers you actually have to use sound tactics.

I used to shoot quite often with a guy who was part of the NTI crew. It had a ton of problems, most of them based on one man's concept of what was tactical (e.g., huge penalty for leaving ammo behind during a reload) and very uneven application of the FOF "tests." At an early NTI, Scott Warren famously handled a stage by sprinting from the start position to the end position faster than any of the role players were ready to react, meaning he got through the whole encounter without having to draw a gun... and he was told that was unacceptable.

[cclaxton]

I shoot with a DM who definitely feels this way. I know Taran Butler has said in a Podcast after last years Nationals that he felt that way. Also he claimed he had overheard match staff saying they were going to show the USPSA shooters what for. After this years Carolina cup one of IDPA's top female shooters stated on Facebook that she had shot her last IDPA stage because of a bad cover call.

I don't know. Cover calls are hard to dispute and can be honestly blown by the RO or used by the RO to screw with the shooters.

As long as you have humans ROing the stages there are going to be disputes over cover calls. Until we have instant replay no matter how you rewrite the rules there will be hard feelings over cover calls, RO's are human and make mistakes.

So, do umpires ever call strike when it was a ball, or visa versa?

It is a part of the game. Sometimes we have good days and get good calls, sometimes we don't. My main complaint actually is that SO's let people get away with rules violations because they want shooters to have a good time shooting the match. They tell you you cannot do X at the beginning and then I see someone clearly do X and don't get called on it...at a sanctioned match. But that could have been ME and I would be grateful. I could have received the cover call and the other guy didn't for the same foot position...it wasn't my day. If someone says they are not going to shoot IDPA because of a single bad cover call, then they need a break.
CC

[PPGMD]

I'm quite familiar with it. Clyde Caceres, who I was dealing with since the late 90's when he was at Crimson Trace, was one of the major players behind it. Apart from being less concealable and far more expensive, they're great. And really, I wouldn't have a problem with them being legal for IDPA. But given that 99% of the people out there don't even know they exist I'm not too worried about the people who feel disenfranchised by their exclusion.

Yeah they aren't very common. I've played around with one for a little while, it is a really sound concept.

I know a number of guys who are certified instructors for Surefire Institute and Strategos (which was started by the guy who started the original Surefire Institute). None of them carry a WML when they're carrying concealed. So I think it's a mistake to suggest that people don't realize the benefits of a WML... or the benefits of the alternatives thereto.

How long ago was it? I've noticed an up tick of people concealed carrying WML now that there are better holsters, and smaller lights.

The military was using red dots before USPSA existed, actually. And they're still far, far from "mainstream" in terms of handguns.

I said IPSC not USPSA. It was the competition shooters that embraced the red dot with open arms (some say they were too open).

I used to shoot quite often with a guy who was part of the NTI crew. It had a ton of problems, most of them based on one man's concept of what was tactical (e.g., huge penalty for leaving ammo behind during a reload) and very uneven application of the FOF "tests." At an early NTI, Scott Warren famously handled a stage by sprinting from the start position to the end position faster than any of the role players were ready to react, meaning he got through the whole encounter without having to draw a gun... and he was told that was unacceptable.

NTI has some issues, but that is to be expected when you are judging a subjective item. But as compared to IDPA they are closer to the "tactical" roots.

[Urban_Redneck]

It seems to this new to competitive shooting guy, that one can look at IDPA as world onto itself and strive to master the skills and techniques the format demands or, you can kvetch about things that you perceive as holding you back from a top score.

For my needs (competency in CCW), I see shooting from behind available cover as a universal good. "Fishing vests" aside, drawing my carry gun and mags from concealment is another critical skill to test and refine. Of course from a competitive perspective, as hard as IDPA seems to try, it is not a BSA Pinewood Derby level field, but, I like to imagine, it is close as good SO's can make it.

However, I would like to be able to legally engage a target with a mag in my support hand after a Tac reload ( we all have something )

[ford.304]

Personally I'm just glad IDPA exists because I still barely have enough magazines/speedloaders to go to USPSA, and I definitely don't have enough pouches. A USPSA revolver rig is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen.

[MDFA]

At some point in our shooting careers, we've all gotten a break when we shouldn't, and we've all gotten screwed.

It just depends if we had a smile on our face afterwards.

[KeeFus]

Anybody gonna retake the SO test? I got an email from HQ the other day announcing when the test would be available.

[jlw]

Anybody gonna retake the SO test? I got an email from HQ the other day announcing when the test would be available.

I'm going to retake it simply because I have a few obligations that compel me to do so, and I still have another goal or two to accomplish in IDPA before I move on to something else.

[LHS]

Well, the monthly match this morning was interesting, because people were giddily round dumping at every opportunity. We had very little movement in the stages today, but what little there was did not involve reloading, so that flat-footed rule didn't come into play. Some of the stages were quite amusing, however. We had a stage with four threats clustered around a nonthreat. If you took a knee, your shots on the front two heads would go right into the -0 body ring on the rear two. The MD made it clear that you still had to fire two shots at each target rather than rely on shoot-throughs with the first pair, but that just meant people took a knee and put four rounds into each of the near targets' heads instead of two. As fun as it was with my Beretta, it was even more fun with my AK.