Always look up.

[ToddG]

At one point a deputy did everything right headshooting a bad guy who was holding a hostage as soon as he had a clear shot and was rebuked because the hostage might have been the real bad guy forcing a real hostage to use an empty gun and act like a bad guy as a diversion.

Just... wow.

[JodyH]

At one point a deputy did everything right headshooting a bad guy who was holding a hostage as soon as he had a clear shot and was rebuked because the hostage might have been the real bad guy forcing a real hostage to use an empty gun and act like a bad guy as a diversion.

mind = blown

[Chuck Haggard]

At one point a deputy did everything right headshooting a bad guy who was holding a hostage as soon as he had a clear shot and was rebuked because the hostage might have been the real bad guy forcing a real hostage to use an empty gun and act like a bad guy as a diversion.

In a near perfect world that "supervisor" would be fired for that BS alone, and barred for life from any LE job. Ever. Total and complete fail of leadership.


I'll throw out another area where I think the scenario went to the douche end of the scale. Fine, pull the stunt, talk about it with the students, but then you post in on You Tube? The point for that is what?

True, I do not know the context of the scenario in the video, but I strongly suspect what happened by watching it. I have seen such shenanigans far too often in the LE world.


The ambush scenario during an active-shooter incident is often brought up, a real issue with that line of thinking being if a guy is waiting in ambush be is no longer an active-shooter. I have studied this at length for a number of year and I have yet to find a single real world ambush scenario in one of these events.

In case anyone is wondering what my extreme interest in active-shooters stems from;
http://www.thetacticalwire.com/featu...featureID=3593

[Lomshek]

Just... wow.

Yeah...

It was one of those awkward moments where I knew all the parties involved enough that I was there but did not have any credibility since I'm just some guy who rides bicycles. I kept my pie hole shut and finished the day.

Almost better was a "storm the auditorium and free the hostages" scenario when the good guys started taking cover behind the seated hostages as they advanced into the room and exchanged airsoft shots with us. As a not very mean roll player I (afterwards) realized I was holding off on taking shots that might hit a hostage my police adversaries were hiding behind.

There were some tactics discussed as "the only way to do it" that I won't mention openly but they sure conflicted with how my non-cop understanding of every active shooter I've read about happens.

I'd love to get enough cred with the departments to help them bring a pro trainer in so they can learn some more useful tactics.

[David Armstrong]

from Todd:
FOF is about testing tactics and about testing decision-making under stress.

So the first question you must ask whenever watching a FOF scenario is simple: what is being tested?

It is a hallmark of proper FOF training that you only test what has been taught.

Exactly. Going back to my OPFOR stuff, we went high specifically as a part of "just because you see a problem in one area doesn't mean the whole squad forgets about THEIR areas of observation and control." But that was part of the leson, to drill on the idea of individual areas of control and take care of your area, not worry about your buddies areas.

[Dagga Boy]

I'll come right out and say the guy, if he is an instructor for what looks like an active-shooter training evolution, is a douche-bag.

Every scenario should have a learning objective, and the scenario should be as realistic as possible. In this case the scenario looks to be what so many FoF scenarios turn in to, an "I gotcha!" dick measuring contest so that ambush guy can regale people with his bad assery afterwards.

I'll point out that he also appeared to have inexperienced students and the Sim helmets helping create an upward blind spot in their peripheral vision.

Ditto on this, and why I put VERY limited credence into "lessons learned" or "proof" from FoF scenarios, especially those in which I do not know the how they were set up and who set them up. The only things taught to those officers was to question their entry tactics for what they are most likely to face and to start looking for things that are very unlikely to happen. Setting students up for failure is really easy in FoF. Good FoF instruction will teach students how to win, and is actually much harder.

[Dropkick]

At one point a deputy did everything right headshooting a bad guy who was holding a hostage as soon as he had a clear shot and was rebuked because the hostage might have been the real bad guy forcing a real hostage to use an empty gun and act like a bad guy as a diversion.

mind = blown

Literally and figuratively, I might add.

[TCinVA]

At one point a deputy did everything right headshooting a bad guy who was holding a hostage as soon as he had a clear shot and was rebuked because the hostage might have been the real bad guy forcing a real hostage to use an empty gun and act like a bad guy as a diversion.

That's happened more than once among local LE FOF training, too.

As mentioned before in this thread, FOF training in the hands of a dummy turns into no-win scenarios. At best that's useless...at worst, it introduces hesitation in precisely the situation where it's the worst idea imaginable.

[Coyotesfan97]

Yeah...

It was one of those awkward moments where I knew all the parties involved enough that I was there but did not have any credibility since I'm just some guy who rides bicycles. I kept my pie hole shut and finished the day.

Almost better was a "storm the auditorium and free the hostages" scenario when the good guys started taking cover behind the seated hostages as they advanced into the room and exchanged airsoft shots with us. As a not very mean roll player I (afterwards) realized I was holding off on taking shots that might hit a hostage my police adversaries were hiding behind.

There were some tactics discussed as "the only way to do it" that I won't mention openly but they sure conflicted with how my non-cop understanding of every active shooter I've read about happens.

I'd love to get enough cred with the departments to help them bring a pro trainer in so they can learn some more useful tactics.

I'm guessing the priority of life was never discussed. The way it sounds they'd never heard of it.

1. Hostages
2. Citizens
3. Police
4. Suspects

I can't imagine the debrief my old team would have given on tactics like that. Well yeah I can because it would be brutal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

Can't say the instructor's credentials are doing him a lot of favors...

http://muzzlefront.com/muzzle-front/

"Robert began his formal training as a gunsmith in 2003 just outside of Hartford, Connecticut where he apprenticed in antique firearm restoration and quickly moved into customizing various pistol and AR platforms. He furthered his education while working for various manufacturers and dealers, where Robert combined his abundant skills as an instructor with his passion for firearms. Robert has been called upon to present expert testimony in court cases involving detailed analysis of weapons’ function as well as various aftermarket modifications made to Class III firearms. As a direct result of Robert’s work with numerous firearms and training companies across the nation, he brings professionalism and the expertise of a certified instructor to Muzzle Front"

I don't have any reason to think he is a bad person or anything - in fact he might be a great instructor of certain things - but from the video and my uneducated perspective it seems like active shooter drills are not one of them. Perhaps he did not recognize the lane of traffic appropriate for his vehicle, as it were...