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Thread: Robbed at gunpoint--again

  1. #1

    Robbed at gunpoint--again

    In 2010, I was living in the ghettos around Buenos Aires as a missionary. I was at that time robbed at gunpoint, and the totality of my experience taught me to be a little more aware on the street.

    This morning, as a foreign exchange student in the city proper, I was robbed at gunpoint once more.

    It is foggy today in Buenos Aires. Tuesday mornings at 6:30 local time I go to my church for a bible study-type class. I got off the bus on one of the major streets of the city, and started the four block walk to the chapel. Still dark and very foggy, though there are a few people on the street. I made it to block two when I became aware of a young man walking in my direction, about twenty-five yards out. He isn't particularly dressed like the gangster types I knew from my days in the hood, but I decide to keep an eye on him anyway. And I do--right up to the point where he stops about five feet in front of me, pulls a semi-auto out of his waistband (high polish bright finish, from the size probably an Argentine-made Bersa .380), racks the slide, and says "dame todo tu dinero" (give me all your money).

    For a split second I consider drawing the 15cm fixed-blade I carry AIWB (in traditional Argentine fashion; CCW of firearms is strictly illegal and even the knife could possibly cause me problems, depending on the cop I run into, though it is not strictly illegal), but decide it's too risky.

    I reach into my pocket and pull out a wad of bills amounting to some $25 Argentine pesos (less than four dollars using the real exchange rate). "Dame el celular," (give me your cell phone) he continues. I give him my el-cheapo Samsung that a previous foreign exchange student had left in my room. "La billetera, dame la billetera" (Your wallet, give me your wallet). "No tengo billetera, pero tengo tarjeta SUBE si querés," (I don't have a wallet, but I have a bus card if you want) I respond.

    He doesn't want it. "Vení... seguí caminando que te pego un tiro" (Come here... keep walking or I'll shoot you). He sends me on my way. I keep walking in the direction I was headed--church is only two blocks away--and warn two oncoming female joggers without turning my head: "Chicas, doblen que recién me robaron" (Girls, turn now because I just got robbed).

    Lessons learned: being situationally aware is not the same as being prepared, and being prepared is not just having a weapon or even knowing how to use it, but having a plan and being prepared to do so.

    I was completely situationally aware, and had my eyes fixed on the mugger for several seconds before he became an explicit threat. I was prepared in the sense that I had the best weapon legally available to me and was physically able to draw it very, very quickly (at least in practice). I am starting to train with a teacher in traditional Argentine knife fighting. But when the threat energy ceased to be potential and became kinetic, so to speak, I was left without effective options, because I had only managed to recognize and observe the threat, not prepare a plan of action to deal with it.

    Also, it is important to note that this was one of the city's nicer neighborhoods--lots of wealthy houses, a large Catholic school and the Australian and South Vietnamese embassies on the same street or nearby. Crime can happen anywhere.

    In the end, I lost almost nothing in monetary value, was completely unscathed, and did not have to file a police report for self-defense. But I did learn some valuable lessons from this experience that I want to put into practice immediately. Even being 100% prepared, I might decide, based on the situation, to just hand over the money. But in the case that is not the best course of action, I want to have the option of defending myself effectively.

    Final thoughts: one of the main factors in my decision not to draw my knife was the fact that I would have to go through the whole draw process: lift cover garment, grab knife, draw, thrust. A small revolver in the pocket (I usually carry a 1911 IWB at 3:00) would have, on the other hand, been easily accessible as it was into that very pocket that I reached--without the mugger batting an eye--to retrieve the small wad of cash I handed over. I believe it would have been feasible to produce from that pocket not cash, but a weapon, and come out firing. For now, it might be convenient to carry a pocketknife, considering legal consequences. When I return to the States I might begin carrying a pocket gun in addition to my main sidearm.

  2. #2
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    Thank you for the post.

    It's hard to counter someone just walking up to you and sticking a gun in your face. Even if carrying I don't know that I'd do anything different. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

    Southnarc has probably been robbed more times than anyone else on this forum - and IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) cooperated with the robber more often than not because the situation demanded it. It's hard, and probably stupid, to turn a maybe-fight into a definite-fight when a deadly weapon is involved unless you have no other choice...

  3. #3
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    Even being 100% prepared, I might decide, based on the situation, to just hand over the money. But in the case that is not the best course of action, I want to have the option of defending myself effectively.
    That is what I teach. "Going to the guns" should be a last resort, not a first resort, because once you do that it is hard to de-escalate. You want to always have that option of escalating the encounter, but it is hard to de-escalate once things have reached that point of full blown fighting.
    When I return to the States I might begin carrying a pocket gun in addition to my main sidearm.
    I like pocket carry specifically for that reason. Reaching into the pocket is a natural and often expected movement.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubio Negro View Post
    Lessons learned: being situationally aware is not the same as being prepared, and being prepared is not just having a weapon or even knowing how to use it, but having a plan and being prepared to do so.

    I was completely situationally aware, and had my eyes fixed on the mugger for several seconds before he became an explicit threat. I was prepared in the sense that I had the best weapon legally available to me and was physically able to draw it very, very quickly (at least in practice). I am starting to train with a teacher in traditional Argentine knife fighting. But when the threat energy ceased to be potential and became kinetic, so to speak, I was left without effective options, because I had only managed to recognize and observe the threat, not prepare a plan of action to deal with it.
    Welcome to the forum. Good points made.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    I like pocket carry specifically for that reason. Reaching into the pocket is a natural and often expected movement.
    For exactly this reason if I have my pants on I am pocket carrying a J-frame or Kahr PM-9--even though I typically carry a larger handgun IWB as well.

  6. #6
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    It should be taken into account that on television, compliance with the bad guy's requests always leads to safety, yet, in the real world, people are often still shot after compliance.

  7. #7
    Member Dropkick's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I see how introducing a second gun into the situation (without dealing with the first gun) would effect the outcome positively.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by joshrunkle35 View Post
    It should be taken into account that on television, compliance with the bad guy's requests always leads to safety, yet, in the real world, people are often still shot after compliance.
    This seems to be happening a lot lately here in Argentina. Being on drugs probably has to do with it. The first guy who robbed me, who laid hands on me and actually stuck his gun against my jaw, was a lot more aggressive, and I believe he was on drugs. People from the neighborhood told me he was a dangerous person after the incident, and I believe he would have killed me if it seemed like a good idea. I actually saw him a couple of times after that, even said "hi" to him in the street (out of nerves, as he was walking right past me). He gave me a dirty look and kept walking. Anyway, the guy who robbed me yesterday seemed a lot more chill (relatively speaking), and kept his muzzle toward the ground.

    I made a conscious choice to submit, but I feel like I was not in as much control of the situation (as much as you can be in control of a situation like that) as I could have been. Even if I ended up submitting, I would have liked to have been negotiating from a stronger position. If it had been necessary to employ a weapon, I would have been at a disadvantage, not only due to the obvious, but because of my decision to continue to walk towards a potential threat without actually mentally preparing to defend myself. That's what I want to fix for next time, assuming I can't just leave.

    Thanks for the responses thus far.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    I'm not sure I see how introducing a second gun into the situation (without dealing with the first gun) would effect the outcome positively.
    Depending on the situation, a second gun might be the way to deal with the first gun. Or it might not. Dunno, wasn't there.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshrunkle35 View Post
    It should be taken into account that on television, compliance with the bad guy's requests always leads to safety, yet, in the real world, people are often still shot after compliance.
    Don't know where you are getting the info, or what constitutes "often", but actual research indicates that compliance is far safer than resistance.
    "PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"

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