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Thread: Apex/ Barsto barrel M&P 9mm

  1. #11
    I've had a pair of M&P Pros with the Apex Bar-sto match fit barrels since July. Due to being in 1911 mode until the IPSC Nationals, I've only had a chance to put a little over 100 rounds through one of my pair.

    But they are quite accurate, groups average about 2" at 25 yards from prone. Apex was getting 1.5" groups with the new version ammo (I was using the reloads), and .73" groups with ASYM both off the bench.

    Based on my experience, if you buy one of these barrels from Bar-sto match fit barrels, shoot the gun with the barrel fitted first before buying sights. Mine were 4" low from POA, so I had to do with a much lower front sight than what is normally recommended for the rear sight I am using.

    Now I haven't talked about them at Apex's request, I didn't get the full story why until this afternoon. Apex still isn't offering the barrels themselves. Bar-sto is delivering barrels based on their own specs, and mine were custom machined from those barrels, to match Apex's specs. Apex is still continuing to find a way to deliver barrels to their specs. So my results may or may not reflect production Bar-sto barrels. I doubt that there is anything inherently wrong with the Bar-sto M&P barrels, nor did I get that impression from talking to Apex.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    I've had a pair of M&P Pros with the Apex Bar-sto match fit barrels since July. Due to being in 1911 mode until the IPSC Nationals, I've only had a chance to put a little over 100 rounds through one of my pair.

    But they are quite accurate, groups average about 2" at 25 yards from prone. Apex was getting 1.5" groups with the new version ammo (I was using the reloads), and .73" groups with ASYM both off the bench.

    Based on my experience, if you buy one of these barrels from Bar-sto match fit barrels, shoot the gun with the barrel fitted first before buying sights. Mine were 4" low from POA, so I had to do with a much lower front sight than what is normally recommended for the rear sight I am using.

    Now I haven't talked about them at Apex's request, I didn't get the full story why until this afternoon. Apex still isn't offering the barrels themselves. Bar-sto is delivering barrels based on their own specs, and mine were custom machined from those barrels, to match Apex's specs. Apex is still continuing to find a way to deliver barrels to their specs. So my results may or may not reflect production Bar-sto barrels. I doubt that there is anything inherently wrong with the Bar-sto M&P barrels, nor did I get that impression from talking to Apex.
    To sum it up, whatever experience you'll get with these, it will not be fully reflective of Barsto offerings available through their website?

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    To sum it up, whatever experience you'll get with these, it will not be fully reflective of Barsto offerings available through their website?
    Probably, I wouldn't call mine prototypes, but they certainly aren't the same as the production Bar-sto barrels.

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pittsburg, KS
    So no Apex locking block or barrel fitting option?

  5. #15
    I'm interested...but $240 for a match barrel then another $215 for fitting is the price of a new pistol. My KKM drop-in is good enough for now.

  6. #16
    Wilson Combat's drop-in barrel has cut my group sizes in half; 147 grain American Eagle runs about 2.5":

    http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Gr...oductinfo/689/

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomshek View Post
    So no Apex locking block or barrel fitting option?
    At least based on what they told me, not until they get barrels delivered to their specs.

  8. #18
    Member orionz06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveB View Post
    Wilson Combat's drop-in barrel has cut my group sizes in half; 147 grain American Eagle runs about 2.5":

    http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Gr...oductinfo/689/
    As your gun previously acceptable? What are the group sizes with better ammo? 2.5" with american eagle is solid.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    As your gun previously acceptable? What are the group sizes with better ammo? 2.5" with american eagle is solid.
    Factory barrel ~5" with AE, which is the best ammo I shoot in this gun.

  10. #20
    Hello All,

    I apologize for kicking a dead horse after so long. I figured that replying to this thread was the best place to answer some long asked questions.

    In regards to the machined locking block, we abandoned the project after making a handful and testing them. Due to the tolerance variations of the gun, we saw no statistical data that they improved the accuracy. We will let Smith formulate their changes in the locking blocks and MIM them as they see fit. The cost to manufacture the new locking block would make it unprofitable, especially in light of the sporadic and minimal gains.

    The Apex/Bar-Sto barrel:
    Years ago I had asked Irv if he could make a barrel to my specifications. The barrel that Bar-Sto produces is based upon Irv's years of experience in barrel manufacturing and not on my design specifications. As a result, I did not feel comfortable placing my company name on something that I had no hand in creating. The Bar-Sto barrel is a very good barrel, however there are very specific dimensions and twist rate that I require to accomplish my accuracy expectations.

    As PPGMD mentioned, we asked him to keep quiet while I tried to sort things out. Irv is a good friend and an exceptional barrel maker and I do not want to tarnish his reputation. It boils down to the fact that any barrel that carries the Apex name must be entirely to my specs. Period.

    So I have spent the better part of 4 years quietly looking at the 9mm accuracy deficit with the M&P. I have watched the various forum posts while I collected accuracy data and slide measurements throughout this time. I have also watched literally tens of thousands of individual frames of high speed video looking for clues as to the root cause of erratic accuracy. This is in part, why no one has heard from me.

    I cannot comment on my findings as I am going through the patent process at this time. I will say that it is a complex, multi-faceted problem rather than just one single root cause. I can also say that we have a pretty good solution to the problem...

    The point of all this is that I have been testing my barrel design since the beginning of the year. I can say with confidence that the M&P is mechanically capable of shooting 2" groups at 50 yards with commercially available 124 gr and 147 gr ammo, and sub 1" with tailored hand loads. Our test guns were 5" Pros and 9Ls shooting 5 shot groups from a Ransom Rest. When I am permitted to attach photos of some of the test targets, I shall.

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