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Thread: Reduced Round Counts and Training

  1. #11
    We are diminished
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    I may have missed it or it may not be out there given the break but has AFHF been altered at all? I would guess the answer to be no.
    Proving yet again that I live a charmed life, my break from teaching and the ammo shortage happened simultaneously so I've been able to dodge the whole kitten problem.

    However, during the last ammo shortage I did make some pretty significant changes to the program. They were due anyway because early on I had a lot of students get burned out half way through day 2. Part of the change come by adding more dedicated lecture time to explain how/why I do things a certain way. Part of it came from getting more efficient with early drills that can teach the same concepts in a few rounds instead of many mags. And part of it came from taking out certain topics or drills, replacing them instead with things that only one person at a time can shoot such as Triple Nickel, Hackathorn Head Shot Standards, and the barrel/figure-8 drill.

    The net effect was we went from 1,500rd per class to 1,000-1,200 per class. Of course, that still gets shifted class by class depending on the students, range, weather, etc.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    TX
    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    But if now he's added a lecture on dry fire or weapons retention or <insert topic of interest>, yes.
    This could be a good side effect to the ammo crisis - if round count is reduced, add a half day or whatever of first aid, FoF, etc. The Tom Givens Combined Skills class was a fantastic value in that regard. Most of the round count (700 or so) was in an intense half day session with Tom, and the rest of the time was lecture, AMIS/MUC stuff, dry fire, and emergency first aid.
    Obviously we didn't get as "deep" as a 2 day full-on course, but it was good base knowledge in different areas.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    I had the opposite thought as the OP when courses started reducing round count. My first thought was "oh, so you're telling me that I actually DON'T need to shoot 2k rounds in 3 days to learn something?"

    Best courses I've ever had were <1k/3-days. Most of the Hollywood classes/instructors are now being forced to learn how to teach.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I had the opposite thought as the OP when courses started reducing round count. My first thought was "oh, so you're telling me that I actually DON'T need to shoot 2k rounds in 3 days to learn something?"
    I agree with you. I think you can indeed learn things in far fewer rounds. The rub is in the point at which a loss of repetition and refinement occurs.

    Best courses I've ever had were <1k/3-days.
    This. I've found the 250-350rd mark per day, depending on the class and material, seems to be a good number for quantity and quality of material, student endurance and fatigue, and actual teaching, diagnostics, and interaction.

    I've been to some events that were 1k per day. While they were deep in brass, but shallow in learning.

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