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Thread: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbm View Post
    Don't get too excited about this. Not sure I trust the info. The Brady Bill was enacted in 1993. So, it might be a ploy from the UBC crowd to justify UBC.
    Heck, with all the gang related shootings across the USA in recent years plus considering the daily/nightly shootings in Chicago, I have a hard time accepting the stats at first glance.
    The more educated anti-gunners know crime has been dropping, when confronted with the fact the default to "yes, crime has been decreasing, but expiration of the federal AWB correlates with a slowed decrease in crime rate"

    Gang crime has decreased too, and trends in chicago do not represent the country as a whole. There will always be anomalies and exceptions.

    Also, what would the point of manipulating the data in such a manner when the only way the anti gun narrative can survive is if the public believes crime is rampant?

    I hate to pull the "paranoid gun owner" card, but...
    Last edited by G60; 05-09-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  2. #12
    I don't really understand how this data could possibly benefit anti-gunners. The assault weapons ban expired almost a decade ago and crime continued to trend downwards. While gun homicides decreasing while gun ownership continues to increase doesn't imply "more guns=less crime", it sure disproves "more guns=more crime," which has been one of the hallmark arguments of antis.

  3. #13
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

    1993 is when the Brady bill passed. The Brady bill is the reason gun violence in America has declined since. What we need, obviously, are more laws like the Brady bill.

    Srsly, there is no reasoning with these kittennuts. Because shall not be infringed, bullets first, cold dead hands.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JAD View Post
    1993 is when the Brady bill passed. The Brady bill is the reason gun violence in America has declined since. What we need, obviously, are more laws like the Brady bill.

    Srsly, there is no reasoning with these kittennuts. Because shall not be infringed, bullets first, cold dead hands.
    I agree wholeheartedly that there is no reasoning with the hardcore antis. Just as they'll never convince us to throw out the Second Amendment and rely on Big Brother to protect us, we won't convince them that the whole "freedom is good" angle is pretty damn nice. However, it's not the hardcore antis I care about convincing. It's the million's of people in the middle, the fence-sitters who still haven't made up their minds, that I'm concerned with. Those people have yet to really form their opinions on the issue, for the most part, and I believe things like this study are a great tool to have when speaking with people in that category. I believe the people who can shift this issue either way can actually be convinced with facts and data.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Matt O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    It's the million's of people in the middle, the fence-sitters who still haven't made up their minds, that I'm concerned with. Those people have yet to really form their opinions on the issue, for the most part, and I believe things like this study are a great tool to have when speaking with people in that category. I believe the people who can shift this issue either way can actually be convinced with facts and data.
    Agreed, but only as long as they are actually given those "facts" and "data," things that are pretty much non-existent in national discourse anymore. The fact that 56% of people polled felt that firearms-related crime was higher than 20 years ago, despite all the freely available justice department data updated for us every year is, while not surprising, disconcerting. It's testament to just how effective media scare tactics are and just how far we have to go in making up ground in this fight.

  6. #16
    1st: Just to make sure everyone knows (and no one has inferred otherwise), I'm not an "anti".

    Question: Why have the stats decreased beginning in 1993?? Anti-folks can use the data to convince many non-gun people who already want to believe.

    And, one more thing: The nonbelievers far out number the rest of us who do. With no real/substantial reason for the stats decrease, making a case for universal background checks (UBC) would not be a big stretch.
    Last edited by dbm; 05-09-2013 at 09:01 PM.

  7. #17
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbm View Post
    1st: Just to make sure everyone knows (and no one has inferred otherwise), I'm not an "anti".

    Question: Why have the stats decreased beginning in 1993?? Anti-folks can use the data to convince many non-gun people who already want to believe.

    And, one more thing: The nonbelievers far out number the rest of us who do. With no real/substantial reason for the stats decrease, making a case for universal background checks (UBC) would not be a big stretch.
    Well, that's the thing about statistics......you can usually find a way to pull it into your cause.

    Just because someone might be able to does not mean the stats are purposely falsified.

    As for there being no clearly defined reason for the stats to drop since 1993.....well, this is why we have people with PhD's arguing about stuff for many years. There will probably never be a clearly defined, universally accepted reason for the crime stats to drop since 1993. Scholars are still arguing over what caused crime stats to drop/rise over periods of time much farther in the past than 1993....so I wouldn't expect there to be a "real/substantial reason" as you put it, anyway. This is business as usual, and not a reason for conspiracy.
    Last edited by TGS; 05-09-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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  8. #18
    Member NETim's Avatar
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    Regardless of what may, or may not, have caused the decrease in crime, this data punches big gaping holes in the notion that "more guns = more crime."

    It is, as always, who possesses those "more guns."
    In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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