Street robberies and you

[BJJ]

Awesome write up on street robberies by a very experienced cop:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/128...he_Basics.html

[JMorse]

That was an awesome read. Thanks very much.

[RoyGBiv]

I read that when it initially made the rounds last year.

Biggest takeaway for me was.........

When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.

Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!

I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream "That's close enough motherfuckers!" What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.

Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.

Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some motherfucker up to no good. He won't call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off.

When to shoot

The time to shoot is immediately upon seeing his weapon. You are not a police man who has to try to arrest the guy. No need to scream at him. No exposure while you yell for him to drop the gun.

[WobblyPossum]

Thanks for linking that. The when to draw section was thought provoking.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I normally feel dirty whenever I go to Barfcom, but that was good. The interactions I had as an LEO with armed robbers/street gangsters track exactly with what this officer has to say.

[Jay Cunningham]

That was VERY interesting and I will be thinking carefully about what I read. It's a more aggressive perspective and it also demystifies hundreds/thousands of hours of training junkie "advanced" "tactical" coursework.

*pondering*

[Erik]

I've seen this a few times in the past, and appreciate it every time. The one piece of the write-up that I don't get is saying "I don't have a gun" while giving all the cues that you do. Can anybody with more experience weigh in on that?

[Chuck Haggard]

I'll have to read the whole thing, but the part posted above is dead on.

I have lost track of how many times I have had a gun in hand when a guy or guys decided to go be somewhere else in hurry.

I do tend to try and actually call the local cops in case they give a crap and can maybe do something about checking on the situation. The guys that just shark bumped me will no doubt try again and not just go home and find Jesus. We have made some decent arrests on my job from suspicious persons calls, it works sometimes, but never if you don't call.

Pre HR218 and depending on where I was made a difference though.

[TCinVA]

I've seen this a few times in the past, and appreciate it every time. The one piece of the write-up that I don't get is saying "I don't have a gun" while giving all the cues that you do. Can anybody with more experience weigh in on that?

That's the one bit that concerned me about the writeup.

When it comes to subtle attempts at intimidation I'm of the opinion that most people aren't really capable of pulling it off. A yorkie can growl, but it will never inspire the kind of fear that a Belgian Mal will inspire when it growls. The average accountant trying to growl like a very bad man on the street is probably going to look more like the yorkie than the Mal to the average bad guy. I'll leave more definitive statements about that to the more experienced guys like TPD, SouthNarc and the like...but I'm not going to be inclined to attempt subtle means of intimidation that, if misplayed, don't discourage the bad guy but does give him a clue that I'm packing and where it's located.

If I need to use my weapon as intimidation I'm probably likely to have my hands on it to do so.

Here at PF we've had a number of discussions about the utility of the preemptive draw and I think it's something that folks should be willing to use. While we should never depend on a firearm's ability to intimidate as our only self defense plan, it nevertheless has the power to intimidate and make a bad man break off an attack. I would much rather utilize that potential and end the situation without having to fire a shot than have to explain my hollowpoints in a corpse to the police if for no other reason than it's a lot safer and more convenient for me if a bad man is sent fleeing into the night rather than gurgling out his last breaths at my feet.

[SouthNarc]

The one piece of the write-up that I don't get is saying "I don't have a gun" while giving all the cues that you do. Can anybody with more experience weigh in on that?

Personally I think this is incredibly bad advice for the average person who has not spent a good bit of time in street culture.