TPD's right -- I edited my post for clarity.
TPD's right -- I edited my post for clarity.
Ignore Alien Orders
This is not practice ammunition but ammo that people are going to use to defend their life. For the prices paid for defense ammo, it should be without error.
As someone who works in the factory automation industry, selling products that would solve this and many other quality issues with ammunition, I find the posted flaw to be completely unacceptable. Overall length, rim, and case mouth dimensions, flash hole presence/absence, and primer placement/depth, can all be 100% inspected on the fly.
While most of the manufacturing plants still rely on 1960's technology, there are a few that are starting to implement newer technology. Last year I worked with a customer that was building a machine for a major ammunition manufacturer. The function of this machine was to precisely measuring primer depth on 38 special cases. A few years ago I worked with another company to create an automated inspection machine for making sure that a premier line of shotgun hulls were 100% inspected before they were loaded. Hopefully they will all catch on to the technology that is available to them.
-Seconds Count. Misses Don't-
I work in high volume manufacturing of a mission critical product at an AS9100 facility. I don't believe in zero defect by any means. Stuff happens.
Ignore Alien Orders
Your blog post mentioned using ammo from ATK, Winchester or Remington - what about Hornady or Black Hills?Originally Posted by ToddG
Where do they fit into the quality spectrum?
I don't believe that damage was caused PRIOR to the loading process. I've had flattened and damaged primers while loading AFTER inspecting cases, primers (both sides) and bullets. Sometimes... s#@t happens. When you figure that they are running 1000's of rounds per hour, per machine (probably more), they are bound to have one that bounces in the pusher and goes in wonkey.
Always check your ammo. 360!
Time flies when you throw your watch.
Manufacturers usually don't charge much more for premium JHP than they do for practice ammo. The increase in price happens at the wholesale and/or retail level. For example, I pay less than a 30% difference for 124gr +p HST than I do for 124gr American Eagle practice ammo. At times I even consider doing all my shooting with the HST just because it tends to be more consistent, more accurate, and obviously it perfectly matches my carry load.
I'd have to agree with JAD about 100% error free ammunition. It's just not feasible even if it is possible. Most of the premium JHPs are produced on automated lines with substantial error checking/QC processes but some rounds still sometimes slip through. But I certainly hope the technological advancements you mentioned find their way into the system.
FWIW, Big Three ammunition (in my experience), and premium JHP ammo in particular, is so much more reliable than the guns we shoot it out of that ammo reliability is almost a needless worry.
I have very little personal experience with Hornady ammo... their practice stuff is expensive and their JHP stuff tends to be better suited to killing armored bears than 2-legged villains. I've had great luck with Black Hills and consider their remanufactured ammunition one of the few I'd be willing to trust for practice. Their "red box" non-reloaded ammo is also excellent by reputation but I have not personally shot enough of it to make an intelligent recommendation.
I long ago wrote off Hornady due to serious defects in their "premium" ammunition.
The last straw was when I received several boxes of their TAP 12ga. #00 with horrible crimps.
I contacted their CS and sent them in for replacement.
Over half of the replacement boxes has the exact same crimp issue.
I've pretty much standardized on Federal for all my serious ammunition needs, HST for handguns and Flite-Control for my shotguns.
Black Hills red box is the only exception, I use their 77gr. 5.56 in my 10" AR15.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
I'm not Todd, but this is my lane. I have used BHA new, reman, and seconds of both extensively for many years. Standard deviations, accuracy, and consistency across the board are superb, as is their CS and tech support to end users. Every manufacturer has a premium line with its best foot forward, but my experience is that BHA puts that level of effort in the entire catalog.
Nobody is saying that a manufacturing company can turn out zero defects but there are processes and mechanisms that can catch a primer that is placed in a cartridge sideways.
-Seconds Count. Misses Don't-
Until SkyNet becomes self-aware, there are going to be humans involved. Wherever you have human interaction with production, you have error probability, and it's not zero.........
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