Simunition training- seeing the sights

[Serpico1985]

I recently went through some simunition training for the first time. Overall it was good training but I had a couple of issues pop up. The training itself consisted of a few hours of interior building searches. First we went against paper targets then force on force. I only had a few engagements on paper, no persons, and fired between 3-5 rounds each engagement. I scored solid upper center of mass hits on the evil paper targtes. It didn’t occur to me until after this first block of training that I never once looked at my sights. I was aware of them and I feel like I looked just over the sights during these shootings (vs paper targets).

Fast forward a month to another block of instruction where I went through 5 different scenarios back to back. This was all force on force and I was getting shot back at. I scored quick hits although the bad guys had riot shields (to keep them from getting abused from being shot all day long by their co-workers). I don’t know how good the shots were because a riot shield is a huge target. Again, during this training I never remember actually looking at my sights, just looking just over them at the people with the guns shooting me (which for some reason seemed to demand my attention).

My question is how do I train myself to see the sights during these more realistic engagements? Is there a trick to it or do I just need to do more of this sort of training to get comfortable enough to take the extra time to see the sights. I prescribe to the thought of always seeing the sights and getting some sort of sight picture, which is dictated by the needed accuracy for the shot. I don’t prescribe to the “point shot all the time” crowd.

Thanks for any helpful info.

[ToddG]

One of the primary goals of well scripted and executed FOF training is to provide stress inoculation. As the "OMG incoming!" in your brain goes from an all-encompassing shout to a background roar, you start to execute better technique.

Having said that, two things to keep in mind IMHO:

• Just because you don't remember seeing your sights doesn't mean you didn't see them.
• Just because you remember seeing your sights doesn't mean you really did.

Of the really accomplished shooters I know, none ever claimed to see their sights in FOF training initially. Most took years of both live and FOF practice before they were truly consciously confident of a sight picture in FOF. Even then, it's not an always thing. SLG and I did quite a bit of FOF during a road trip a few years back and I remember being happy at just how clearly I was getting a real sight picture under very tough time constraints with a malicious opponent trying to deliver hits to me simultaneously. Then in '11 I took Craig Southnarc Douglas's Armed Movement in Structures (AMIS) class which is entirely airsoft & Sims. During much of the two days I was very aware of my sights and used them to varying degree as appropriate... I was getting multiple good hits on opponents. In the final evolution, I was able to hit a hostage taker from cover a few times in the chest but when I transitioned to the head my eyes never came back to my sights. I literally watched the Sim round bounce off the side of his face mask in what would have been a complete miss if he hadn't been wearing the helmet.

While others may disagree, I believe that the thing that helped me deliver sighted shots under stress was the effort I put into sighted fire in practice and competition. The whole goal of serious practice is to take technique from the conscious to the subconscious. Hopefully this allows you to execute the technique properly while your brain is busy with more complex "tactical" issues. Combine that with adequate stress inoculation from FOF and you've got a decent chance to use your sights properly IME.

[David Armstrong]

There is some interesting research out there that indicates when under a certain level of stress it is impossible to see the sights, as your eyeballs are undergoing an involuntary threat focus, the brain is making certain demands, etc. As Todd indicated, part of the idea behind stress inoculation and practice is to push that involuntary reaction further back and instill the preferred technique into the subconscious. The more one practices, the more one learns to work with and control the stress reaction, the less likely that lizard brain hiding in the back of all of us takes over.

[Serpico1985]

Thank you ToddG and David Armstrong.

That clears up the issue a little for me. I guess it just seems crazy that I spend so much time concentrating on seeing the front sight in training and the first FOF training I get it doesen't happen for me, and now I'm hearing that it will likley take a significant amount of stress inducing FOF type training before I can even begin to get comfortable enough to see the front sight. I guess this is just somewhat surprising to me.

[TR675]

Here's a question: do you even need or want to see the front sights? By this I mean focusing on the front sight to the exclusion of the target.

This is obviously highly dependent on circumstances. In my lone FOF situation, I focused on the sights when making low probability shots at a distance - not coincidentally, usually when I had the opportunity to slow down, but not always - once was when I was taking fire; I threaded a needle and hit an opponent in the face mask from 10 yards or so firing in between multiple obstructions. I had to see the sights then if I was going to make good hits - and I did.

However, when engaging a target at short (arms length-type) distances I didn't see the sights, partly because I was completely threat-focused and partly because I didn't need to: I lit up my opponents with multiple good hits, even in a dynamic environment. And by "dynamic environment" I mean "falling on my ass, twice" due to a combination of slick floors, well-worn Chuck Taylors, and general clumsiness.

I believe I made good hits because of constant, ingrained repetitions of the extension and firing of the gun. I "saw" the sights in that they were in my field of vision, but didn't focus on the front sight when my opponent was 10 feet away from me, yet made multiple good hits...

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this from those with more FOF experience.

[Prdator]

While others may disagree, I believe that the thing that helped me deliver sighted shots under stress was the effort I put into sighted fire in practice and competition. The whole goal of serious practice is to take technique from the conscious to the subconscious. Hopefully this allows you to execute the technique properly while your brain is busy with more complex "tactical" issues. Combine that with adequate stress inoculation from FOF and you've got a decent chance to use your sights properly IME.

I Totally Concur.

I've been in and watched a fair bit of FOF stuff, Ive not seen my sights,( Close fast stuff) and Seen my sights ( low % target). The first FOF class I did ( CQT ) I did not remember my sights the first day but did the last evo on the second day.

Ill add another point, I really think that the guys that have a high "press out" type draw stroke fare Much better on hits than the guys that do not. Not that you cant do it another way, it just works better by getting the gun in the eye target line and then pressing it out.

Maybe SN will way in as I doubt NO one has more knowledge on it than him.

[NETim]

This is one of the few advantages of being an old guy with bad eyes. I don't see the sights well enough to know if I'm seeing them. I never have to wonder or analyze.

Ignorance is bliss.

(But I'm finding a gold bead out front does help some.)

[David Armstrong]

Here's a question: do you even need or want to see the front sights? By this I mean focusing on the front sight to the exclusion of the target.

This is obviously highly dependent on circumstances. In my lone FOF situation, I focused on the sights when making low probability shots at a distance - not coincidentally, usually when I had the opportunity to slow down, but not always - once was when I was taking fire; I threaded a needle and hit an opponent in the face mask from 10 yards or so firing in between multiple obstructions. I had to see the sights then if I was going to make good hits - and I did.

However, when engaging a target at short (arms length-type) distances I didn't see the sights, partly because I was completely threat-focused and partly because I didn't need to: I lit up my opponents with multiple good hits, even in a dynamic environment. And by "dynamic environment" I mean "falling on my ass, twice" due to a combination of slick floors, well-worn Chuck Taylors, and general clumsiness.

I believe I made good hits because of constant, ingrained repetitions of the extension and firing of the gun. I "saw" the sights in that they were in my field of vision, but didn't focus on the front sight when my opponent was 10 feet away from me, yet made multiple good hits...

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this from those with more FOF experience.

I think your key is the phrase "I didn't see the sights, partly because I was completely threat-focused and partly because I didn't need to:". Up close and personal allows you to make some sighting errors that would be a clean miss at distance, and at diastance we often have more time to correct sighting errors. Repetitive firing the gun and learning where it would put rounds gives your your body that memory of "if I do X I get result 1". Which is a very simplified take on threat focused shooting.

[Andy in NH]

During an ECQC evo I specifically remember not seeing the front sight -because it wasn't there.

It had gone missing some time prior to my evo, but I didn't notice when I took charge of the T-gun and holstered it.

Noticing that the sight was not there caused me to pause for a moment to think "WTF?", but then got back to business of delivering shots by index only.

I would like to believe that this experience suggests that I would indeed look for the sights under stress.

I also recall not remembering seeing my sights under match pressure of IPSC/IDPA stages, but yet the hits proved to be good.

This is similar to my experience at AMIS, where I don't recall seeing the sights for every evo, but the large majority of hits were good.