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Thread: To Close or Not To Close - That is the Question

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Creek View Post
    My first AR-15 style carbine is a S&W M&P15 Sport. I do not have to worry about closing the dust cover on that one. I also do not have to worry about jamming a round into the chamber with the nonexistant forward assist. I have since acquired other M4 style carbines with all the standard features. I doubt I will ever miss the dust cover. From my research, the forward assist is a solution in search of a problem.
    If I recall correctly, the original AR-15 had neither a dust cover nor a forward assist. For me, the dust cover is more useful for admin /daily grind issues than in actual firing / deployment of the weapon - ala the dust bunnies and Cheeto crumbs mentioned in my OP.

    We "cruiser carry" all our work M-4's with empty chambers when stored in vehicles and I can't recall the last time I used the forward assist.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    and I can't recall the last time I used the forward assist.
    Good point!



    Unfortunately, several generations of our military were taught to use the forward assist as part of the "learn by rote" methodology, and the mantra spewed out at the various basic and advanced training programs resonates to this day. Most of those institutions continue to teach using the FA, and it is included in the literature and publications accompanying the AR/M4/M16's being issued.

    To truly understand the forward assist, it's development, and implementation into the platform, we have to go back several decades when the entire program was relatively new, and the battlefield conditions compounded issues always seen when fielding a new system. (i.e., glitches, hiccups, parts breakage, reliability problems, ammunition variances, etc.) As a nation at war, and an unpopular one at that, the engineers and designers had to rush to solve a problem that none had personally experienced, so the solution was found in a vacuum. While it "kind of" worked, time has shown us that the FA mechanism isn't the solution they thought it was when it was implemented.

    There are very few situations/circumstances where using the forward assist is a good idea. If using a quality modern carbine, with quality modern ammunition, quality modern magazines, and a round fails to properly and fully chamber...........there is probably a reason for that. Getting a bigger hammer to jam it in is usually not the answer.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    The only thing I use my FA for is after I press check.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    The only thing I use my FA for is after I press check.
    Agreed. I use the same principle if I press check a pistol. Thumb on the rear of the slide and push forward. But never the old heel of the hand smack to force what may be a bad round into the chamber, therefore causing a more difficult malfunction to clear.
    Be Aware-Stay Safe. Gunfighting Is A Thinking Man's Game. So We Might Want To Bring Thinking Back Into It.

  5. #25
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    Jay, I've gone to the Pat Rogers's method of checking for cartridge chambering.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al T. View Post
    Jay, I've gone to the Pat Rogers's method of checking for cartridge chambering.
    And what might that be?
    Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 04-26-2013 at 08:24 AM.

  7. #27
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFA View Post
    Agreed. I use the same principle if I press check a pistol. Thumb on the rear of the slide and push forward. But never the old heel of the hand smack to force what may be a bad round into the chamber, therefore causing a more difficult malfunction to clear.
    If it's a successful press-check, wasn't the round already successfully chambered, i.e. a good round?

  8. #28
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFA View Post
    Agreed. I use the same principle if I press check a pistol. Thumb on the rear of the slide and push forward. But never the old heel of the hand smack to force what may be a bad round into the chamber, therefore causing a more difficult malfunction to clear.
    If the round is bad would you have been able to press check and/or get the slide closed fully to begin with?
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  9. #29
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    Closing the dust cover is part of the way Paul Howe teaches the load and make ready procedure.

    Load mag, charge, press check (see brass), bump the fa twice and close the dust cover. I believe the closed dust cover is then an indication that the press check was done.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudy99 View Post
    Closing the dust cover is part of the way Paul Howe teaches the load and make ready procedure.

    Load mag, charge, press check (see brass), bump the fa twice and close the dust cover. I believe the closed dust cover is then an indication that the press check was done.
    This is the second example I've read of an instructor using the closed dust cover as a milestone or indicator of other-things-accomplished.

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