Instructors - Have You Ever Told a Student to Get a Different Gun?

[KentF]

Something very unexpected happened while doing the live fire of my NRA Basic Pistol class yesterday. I've been thinking about it overnight and decided to post here.

As I mentioned in this thread my instructor stated that I was gripping the pistol - a H&K P30 - too tight. Some of my shots were going into the 9 ring with a couple I called pushed into the 8 ring. After firing a few more shots attempting a looser grip he had me stop and try his Beretta 92. This was not a stock gun, as he told me that he had replaced the springs and trigger and had had the action polished. I fired a few round with this, single action, putting all inside the X ring.

Afterword, we talked for few minutes and he told me that there is nothing wrong with my shooting. He then said, "I know this isn't something you a going to want to hear, but I would sell that P30 and get a different gun."

I now wished I had shot the Beretta double action to see how I did with that, but the implication that I can't shoot the P30 well is nagging me. It really did surprise me that I was able to shoot as well with a gun I was totally unfamiliar with.

[JodyH]

A good instructor helps the student get the most out of the gun they own.
Handing you a tuned pistol and shooting it single action only did nothing to further your learning.
I'm a big fan of "run what you brung" and I'll do my best to help you get the most out of your gun.
Once you the shooter gain the experience and skill level to find any shortcomings in your gun then you can make the educated decision to replace it if you want to.
The only time I'd recommend a different gun is if yours was unreliable or dangerous.

On a related note.
IMO a basic skills instructor should use a stock service pistol in class and be able to demo drills with confidence and competence while shooting that pistol.
And I'll even go so far as to say the instructor should be able to pick up any students gun and be able to competently demo a basic drill with the students gun.

[NickDrak]

Even if If the only goal you have for you and your P30 is to shoot x's on paper, he is wrong. It is likely a trigger control issue that can be fixed with time and practice.

[rsa-otc]

Don't change the gun change the instructor. He should have been diagnosing what you were doing differently with the p30. Plenty of people shoot that gun perfectly well in all it's versions. He took the easy way out. And yes if you shot the beretta DA you very likely would've had the same problems as you did with the p30.

[John Ralston]

Keep the P30 - it is just going to take some practice to get all the stars aligned. I did a TON of dry fire practice with my G19 and then with the P30 in order to keep the sights aligned on target while breaking the shot. It isn't something that just comes naturally - it does take practice.

The P30 is 10X's the gun that the Beretta is.

I did end up converting my V2 to the ToddG version...quite a dramatic decrease in trigger pull.

[SouthNarc]

And I'll even go so far as to say the instructor should be able to pick up any students gun and be able to competently demo a basic drill with the students gun.

Agree 100%.

[ToddG]

And I'll even go so far as to say the instructor should be able to pick up any students gun and be able to competently demo a basic drill with the students gun.

This. When I would teach at the IALEFI ATC, I would borrow students' guns for demos just to show that different actions or bigger calibers weren't a huge hindrance. The main reason for this was the occasional cop saying, "Yeah he can shoot four times faster than me, but it's because he's got that 9mm and I'm shooting a forty."

When someone unfamiliar with your pistol's action starts telling you that you need to change, that's a warning sign. I cannot begin to tell you how many instructors -- including some nationally recognized people -- told me to dump the DA/SA back when I was shooting for Beretta and SIG. They got their lack of familiarity confused with natural law.

Having said all that... yes, there have been times I've told students to consider a different gun. Unreliable guns, guns that are too big, guns that are too powerful, and the like have been known to elicit that suggestion from me.

[David Armstrong]

I have recommended that students get different guns before but only if it was clear they had a gun that was unsafe/unreliable or they could not use well, such as a small woman who showed up at one of my classes with an N-frame S&W and there was just no way for her to get a decent firing grip with it, or the one with carpal tunnel issues that could not rack the slide on her gun. But given that you were able to use the 92 successfully that doesn't seem to be an issue, so I'd say doom on you to the instructor and stay with what you have.

[Prdator]

If I have a student struggling with a gun I will always shoot there gun to make sure if it is them or the gun! Normally the gun is fine and the student see this, then they try harder to master it. I love doing this to hot shot LEO guys telling me there Glock always shoots left....

Now if the student puts in the effort and does not get to the level they want ( they always get better) I will recommend a deferent gun, mostly this is due to the fact there gun, normally a Glock or a Sig is two big for there hands. Gun fit is a very critical for having the ability to run the gun of choice at the top level of the shooter, with a smaller grip normally having a better result.

Keep trying with the P30 it is one of the best handguns on the market today and your perfectly capable of learning to shoot it very well!!!!!!

Oh, Im much nicer than ToddG Ill let my students shoot CZ's...

[ToddG]

Oh, Im much nicer than ToddG Ill let my students shoot CZ's...

Before yet another ridiculous internet rumor starts spreading... I have never prevented a student from using any type of safe handgun in a class, including many who've opted to shoot CZs.