5.56mm 55gr GMX

[DocGKR]

FWIW, I also prefer 6.8 mm for hunting with an AR15... However, what caliber is acceptable to use depends somewhat on what location of the country one is hunting in, as deer vary greatly in size--from dog size critters to nearly elk size behemoths. In some regions, 5.56 mm using quality ammunition and judicious shot placement works on deer. Same for hogs. I definitely would NOT use 5.56 mm for elk.

[BLR]

You know,I wasn't going to do this but...

The only time I've been elk hunting (didn't kill anything), another person in the camp brought a 270. Said he never saw a difference with that and heavier calibers. The guide said something to the effect of "try keeping you're eyes open when the gun goes off"

I consider that fitting here.

Can and should are not the same thing.

Lots of heavy game is killed with 22s. Doesn't make it ethical or smart.

I could care less if a crack dealer is shot with a whatever 223. I care when a deer is. Cost is a poor reason to do this.

And for the record, I have taken more than one pig with a 223. I wasn't impressed.

At all.

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[JHC]

Likewise, not to start an argument, but how many deer sized animals have you actually taken with a 223?

In my opinion, a .223 loaded with proper bullets (Barnes/Swift/etc...) is a superb deer cartridge. It'll drop just about any deer in North America.

A questionable shot is a questionable shot, regardless of the ammo/gun combination. The advantage of the 223 is the reduced recoil, and reduced cost to shoot. This means more time can be spent piling primers on the range with little fatigue, and even less impact on the wallet.

I've taken 8 with 8 shots. Longest about 80 yards. I've used the 55 gr Barnes bullet, 77 grain OTM, 68 grain OTM, 55 grain Bonded Bear Claw (Fed), and 60 grain Nosler partition. Massive internal organ damage at these ranges; nowhere near the bone splinters all over the place like the few close range .308 kills I've dissected.

But to Bill's point - I respect that cautionary note. If the hunter is up to it, I think the round it up to it. But IMO, and in my case, I have a rifle, but I hunt like an archer or a handgun hunter. A precise shot. I have passed up shots on walking deer and deer obscured by the thinnest veil of pine needles. It is not the round for the blaster of flushed deer for sure.

[TGS]

I've taken 8 with 8 shots. Longest about 80 yards. I've used the 55 gr Barnes bullet, 77 grain OTM, 68 grain OTM, 55 grain Bonded Bear Claw (Fed), and 60 grain Nosler partition. Massive internal organ damage at these ranges; nowhere near the bone splinters all over the place like the few close range .308 kills I've dissected.

But to Bill's point - I respect that cautionary note. If the hunter is up to it, I think the round it up to it. But IMO, and in my case, I have a rifle, but I hunt like an archer or a handgun hunter. A precise shot. I have passed up shots on walking deer and deer obscured by the thinnest veil of pine needles. It is not the round for the blaster of flushed deer for sure.

Were yours headshots, or traditional shots to the heart?

[223AI]

I've taken 8 with 8 shots. Longest about 80 yards. I've used the 55 gr Barnes bullet, 77 grain OTM, 68 grain OTM, 55 grain Bonded Bear Claw (Fed), and 60 grain Nosler partition. Massive internal organ damage at these ranges; nowhere near the bone splinters all over the place like the few close range .308 kills I've dissected.

But to Bill's point - I respect that cautionary note. If the hunter is up to it, I think the round it up to it. But IMO, and in my case, I have a rifle, but I hunt like an archer or a handgun hunter. A precise shot. I have passed up shots on walking deer and deer obscured by the thinnest veil of pine needles. It is not the round for the blaster of flushed deer for sure.

Agreed on the internal damage. Every deer and hog that I've taken via my 223 and .223AI has had impressive internal carnage, and all were taken from 200 and in, with most shots being high shoulder, neck, or head shots. None have run more than 10 yards, and most dropped in their tracks. Just about anything from Barnes or Swift Sirocco's do wonders, but I've settled on 75 maxes as my go to. Accurate, cheap, and a deadly bullet.

I also agree on the cautionary tale, and I would add that this is where my comment about the .223 being cheap comes into play. Cheaper ammo means, hopefully, more time on the range for folks...and that is never a bad thing. Like everything in life, practice builds a level of comfort, and a level of precision, that most everyone benefits from.

All that said, I would never take an elk with a .22 centerfire...my 6.5x47 or 308 can handle that.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have gone from one side of the fence to the other over the years.

Seen a lot of deer lost to deer legal calibers locally, mostly .243s and the big magnums. All from poor shot placement. This year .223 is legal here and I might use mine. One of the spots I hunt has shots measured in feet not yards. Took a big doe one year with my .308, which was harder than you would think from about 30 feet.

I have had to shoot dozens of deer over the years that have been hit by cars. Placed correctly I think a .223/5.56 is OK for deer if you use good bullets and take responsible shots.

I am also of the "hunt like a bow hunter" mindset. It is after all "deer hunting" and not deer sniping.

[JHC]

Were yours headshots, or traditional shots to the heart?

Two shot in the neck - dropped in tracks. One one of those was from my uphill position at about 60 yards with 77 gr OTM and it exited the front of throat with a gigantic (wound) wound like 4-5" across.

One at the front shoulder/neck juncture- dropped in tracks.

Other five were heart/lungs. Two of those were facing me (we're both on the ground) and the slug entered the lower throat into the chest cavity and through the diaphragm into the stomach. One of those dropped in tracks, one ran about 20 yards all downhill and piled up. The one that dropped in its tracks from the front on hit was shot with the 60 gr Nosler Partition. It was only about 25 yards from me and I was on it very quickly and saw blood just blowing out the entrance wound like a hose. The front half of the Nosler partition's rapid expansion really created a wide wound channel very quickly in that first 8" of penetration. I found the back end of that slug at least 16-20 inches back in the deer's stomach.

Other three of the 5 heart/lung hits were double lung'd with heart damaged also - they each ran from 15-30 yards and piled up. Although the one that only went 15 yards - 15 is where it ran smack into a tree and then to the ground.

They were all stationary when shot.

[BLR]

Parting thought for me ...

Match bullets are typically not game bullets. OTM and Amax weren't designed for hunting big game.

Expansion is inconsistent and unreliable.

Why use a 223 when a Rem 700 in 308 is a few hundred bucks? Especially with match bullets?

We get all tactical Timmy with our 9mm pistol carry bullet, then hunt deer with target bullets. Someone want to help me understand?

Practice you're heart out with your AR. But hunt with a real hunting rifle. You owe it to the game.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

[TGS]

Parting thought for me ...

Match bullets are typically not game bullets. OTM and Amax weren't designed for hunting big game.

Expansion is inconsistent and unreliable.

Why use a 223 when a Rem 700 in 308 is a few hundred bucks? Especially with match bullets?

We get all tactical Timmy with our 9mm pistol carry bullet, then hunt deer with target bullets. Someone want to help me understand?

Practice you're heart out with your AR. But hunt with a real hunting rifle. You owe it to the game.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

Well, the real world experience of those here seems to contradict you that these are inappropriate loads. It jives with experiences I've read about hunters using properly selected bullets in 223 on other forums, as well. As for your earlier comments about 270, well......that's interesting, because equivalents to 270 have been used the world over for a hundred years on large (and dangerous) game. 6.5 Swede comes to mind. It will kill anything that a 30-06 or 300WM will.

As for OTM's having inconsistent and unreliable expansion, well, they're not suppose to expand like a JSP. They fragment and tumble. And they do so magnificently.....not just based on the experiences of hunters using them, but also from the experiences of military shooting bad guys.

[JHC]

OTM - especially up close with the velocity ticking along. Dead fast is dead fast. Archery with the vastly more variable precision of an arrow to stab the deer is legit but shredding its heart and lungs with a 5.56 round is not? I've never seen the logic in that.

The deer taken with the 68 grain BH OTM was hit broadside at about 20 yards. It's the one the ran into the tree. In field dressing both lungs were scrapped out like so much pink scrambled eggs. And the heart was splayed open into thick ribbons like petals blooming out. It was jaw dropping.