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Thread: Dry Practice Misconceptions - Updated 01-22-19

  1. #151
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taadski View Post
    Just FWIW, there have been a number of abstracts written about the involvement of the ulnar digits (ring and pinkie finger) and how much they contribute to overall grip strength. I'd have to dig for a reference link but results typically showed a HUGE decrease in force (like up to 60%) taking those two digits out of the grip equation. Studies were typically done using a dynamometer with a variety of protocols for limiting the use of the digits in question; usually some form of splinting, etc....

    Regardless, me thinks they play a much bigger role in grip and specifically in controlling the pistol than is being suggested.


    Good thread.

    t
    That's pretty neat.

    It would be really cool if the lab coat guys with the right devices could measure a very competent shooter's max grip strength, then be able to measure how much he was applying to his pistol's grip during a shooting drill that required speed and precision. Ideally during him actually shooting with speed and precision.

    Any guesses on what % of his max total would be actually used?

    I'm guessing it something on the order of a third. My intent is to grip hard while shooting but I don't know how hard so I'm just guessing. OTOH on a CoC that I can't really close all the way - there I know I'm attempting with 100%.
    Last edited by JHC; 11-06-2015 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #152
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    I'd love to do another one of these for PF members - let's make it happen!
    Any chance of seeing one closer to the center of the US? Maybe Oklahoma?
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
    When I asked about the pinky and ring fingers, it was more something I was thinking about more on a theoretical level. Prior to Gabe sharing his thoughts, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any high level shooter call out those two fingers as being a potentially a critical part of a good shooting grip.
    FWIW, during the one Jeff Gonzales class I went to he really stressed focusing on the pinky and ring fingers, and their contribution to the grip.

  4. #154
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    The pinkie/ring finger thing: I think we are seeing some 'different strokes' action here. Top shooters get top results doing things slightly different ways, and those slightly different ways are what we are talking about. Nobody is arguing for the cup and saucer grip. Plus, mind-speech translations muddy any discussion. I remember being told (sorry, no robust citation for this) at a shooting school about another student who had been through that school and was a hand surgeon and had offered some physiological insights to the instructors. One was that there is huge variation in how people's tendons are arranged, and some people are truly unable to isolate their trigger finger because tendons of multiple fingers move together in some individuals. Seems like that person might do better to focus on creating a crushing pressure on the gun to insulate it from the inevitable bits of milking that are going to be in their grip. They might not find that out right away (or ever) and just have a hell of a time moving only their trigger finger. And maybe some people milk from the pinkie or ring fingers and other people milk from the middle finger?

    Jay - All hail an improved Timmydom!

    scw2 - Yes, absolutely, consistent grip (even better, a consistent grip acquired at speed) will be the root of index - the ability to grip the gun and drive it to a target spot and have the sights show up in perfect/near-perfect alignment. What I've said about pinkie and ring fingers is specific to the discussion in this thread. I would say approximately none of it to a new shooter to whom I was teaching the basics of shooting. I would be much more reductionist, like "grip the gun pretty hard, for you." "Grip the gun until you shake and tremble, then back it off until you are not shaking." And back it up with a simple illustration of holding the gun stiffly (engaged tendons) and there are a couple easy ways to do that. I would try not to lead them into giving conscious attention to any of the middle, ring, or index fingers. Just to use them together with most of their strength.
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  5. #155
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    I don't want to tell people specifically *how* to grip their pistols in this thread. I just want shooters to achieve a good, strong grip and then use that grip during dry practice.


    If you are staging the trigger during dry practice, you're screwing yourself.

    If you aren't achieving a full firing grip during dry practice, you're screwing yourself.

    If you persist in using "just the tip" of your trigger finger because you were trained that way, you're screwing yourself.

    If you are worried about trying to simulate "catching the link" (riding the reset) during dry practice, you're screwing yourself.

    If you think lots of live fire means you can skip dry practice, you're screwing yourself.


    By experimenting with the the interaction of your support hand and firing hand, and your trigger finger position in relation to the trigger face - whilst employing your full, strong firing grip - you will be able to attain your ultimate goal: pressing the trigger quickly without having your sights appreciably move.

    Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 11-06-2015 at 05:54 PM.

  6. #156
    There is probably an obvious answer to this question that I am just missing, but why isn't this thread in the reference section? Or is it there, and I'm not seeing it? I feel fortunate that it was still shallow enough in the the Drills and Practice sub that I stumbled across it, but it could sink into the depths eventually and I think it would be a shame for such an awesome resource to get buried like that.

    It has been incredibly helpful to me, and it's not like the forum is going to run out of room in the reference section, right?

    Rick

  7. #157
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    Just found this thread and realize now that my dry fire practice has been incorrect. Thanks to the members here that have posted I think I am now on the right track. Looking forward to learning much more and sharing what I can. Thanks again and stay safe. Burt

  8. #158
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    There is so much good stuff in this thread, I come back from time to time to read it again and again.

    Have a question on trigger press speed.

    With a striker, I've heard folks say 'press fast', or maybe more accurately 'in one continuous motion'.

    So, today's question is 'when' does that continuous motion begin?

    Is it:

    A - with finger on slide in register?

    B - with finger in trigger but not depressed?

    C - with all slack taken up in the trigger, to just before the break?

  9. #159
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Definitely not C!!!

  10. #160
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_Jenkins View Post
    There is so much good stuff in this thread, I come back from time to time to read it again and again.

    Have a question on trigger press speed.

    With a striker, I've heard folks say 'press fast', or maybe more accurately 'in one continuous motion'.

    So, today's question is 'when' does that continuous motion begin?

    Is it:

    A - with finger on slide in register?

    B - with finger in trigger but not depressed?

    C - with all slack taken up in the trigger, to just before the break?
    I do not mean to undermine Jay because quite frankly I think his thoughts on this matter are quite excellent.

    For me, I think ALL THREE of those are worth practicing. Not because they all represent desirable places to start the trigger press, but because they can all come out when there is enough variability in the target presentation/availability, and physical circumstances involved in a given shooting engagement.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
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    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

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