Women in IOC: I've taught girls more aggressive than some boys, but....

[BaiHu]

can someone put some color on this? What is the point? I mean, if only 2 women want to volunteer and they fail, then what is the true demand for women in combat?

The only two women to participate in the Marine Corps Infantry Officer Course (IOC) failed ongoing tests to determine which infantry positions should be available to women, according to the Marine Corps Times:

The women failed the introductory Combat Endurance Test, a punishing test of physical strength and endurance, officials at Marine Corps headquarters said Tuesday. The latest class began March 28 at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Va., with 110 lieutenants participating. Ninety-six men passed the initial endurance test. Twelve men and two women — the only female Marines taking part — failed.

http://freebeacon.com/female-marines...fficer-course/

[Kevin B.]

I have to watch what I say but I will say this...

The "true demand" is for more women in senior leadership positions in our Military. The bulk of the senior leaders (General Officers) have historically been drawn from the combat arms-Infantry, Armor and Special Operations- where women are barred from serving.

[BaiHu]

I have to watch what I say but I will say this...

The "true demand" is for more women in senior leadership positions in our Military. The bulk of the senior leaders (General Officers) have historically been drawn from the combat arms-Infantry, Armor and Special Operations- where women are barred from serving.

I understand the touchiness on this subject, but....

If all the people on the battlefield are men, then is it wrong to assume that those who have BTDT have a better sense on how to command and what those troops have gone through?

If no woman wants to be or is not capable of passing the prerequisites to get on the battlefield, then is it wrong to assume that those who have not BTDT should not be in command, for they know not what the troops go through?

[Kevin B.]

If all the people on the battlefield are men, then is it wrong to assume that those who have BTDT have a better sense on how to command and what those troops have gone through?

Not it is not wrong to assume that, though I would add that there is no guarantee that having "BTDT" equates to the ability to successfully command.

If no woman wants to be or is not capable of passing the prerequisites to get on the battlefield, then is it wrong to assume that those who have not BTDT should not be in command, for they know not what the troops go through?

There are some women who are interested in serving in other capacities on the battlefield. The issue lies in the fact that, some people are more interested in ensuring everyone has an equal chance to be successful and when the physical prerequisites prevent certain people from experiencing success, would rather change those prerequisites than acknowledge that those people can not/will not be successful .

[RoyGBiv]

What useful skills and perspectives do you lose from your top command by narrowing your candidate pool in this way?

BTDT is certainly important... but does this de-facto requirement weaken your overall decision making ability in any way?
If yes... How best to rectify?

Back on topic...
If command identifies X, Y, Z as the necessary skills for positions A, B, C... Nobody should get the job if they can't meet the skills.

[Kevin B.]

At the risk of oversimplifying, you probably do not want a quartermaster officer commanding an infantry division for the same reason that you do not want an anesthesiologist heading up your neurosurgery department.

[BaiHu]

I brought up the BTDT remark, b/c I often hear from those in the military complaining that men, who haven't been in combat, tend to be poorer leaders. Therefore, my assumption is if a woman cannot meet the prereqs to even get the opportunity to BTDT, then how will she stack up as a leader of soldiers that are on the ground? How is it good for morale if the person in charge of you a) hasn't passed the same hurdles as you, b) hasn't been or can't be anywhere near the situation you've been in and c) is essentially being politically appointed in order to make the military more fair or equitable?

This, IMO, is a disaster no matter what the situation. You can change women in the military for short men in basketball or sumo wrestlers for the 400 meter hurdle. It's a bad idea to change the program for the sake of fairness, rather than evolving out of a fear of extinction. Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

Imagine if all the long necked giraffes were forced to feed the shorter giraffes b/c they couldn't reach the leaves. What would happen when the long necked giraffes died off b/c they had to feed more and more short giraffes?

[NickA]

An excellent post from my new favorite blogger:
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013...and-realities/

His distinction between "women in combat" and "women in combat arms" was especially interesting to me.

[David Armstrong]

I think the issue is not whether most women could qualify, the issue is more that if a woman does qualify the same as a man she should be given the opportunity to try. I'm somewhat ambivalent on the whole thing. There is something about females in the combat arms that disturbs me, but we heard much of the same when bringing women into law enforcement and that has worked out fairly well.

[BaiHu]

An excellent post from my new favorite blogger:
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013...and-realities/

His distinction between "women in combat" and "women in combat arms" was especially interesting to me.

Thanks for reminding me. I love his stuff and agree.

I think the issue is not whether most women could qualify, the issue is more that if a woman does qualify the same as a man she should be given the opportunity to try. I'm somewhat ambivalent on the whole thing. There is something about females in the combat arms that disturbs me, but we heard much of the same when bringing women into law enforcement and that has worked out fairly well.

I agree with you too David.



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