US Carbine Association

[Lomshek]

How exactly could they ensure a standard in this le/mil division? Some people's duty rides I'm sure would only fit in a open type division. So if USCA merely required people to show credentials to shoot in this division, you'd have dudes with full raced, lo mass carrier formula one guns burning everyone.

Which, I think, goes to Todd's point that a separate LE/Mil division (especially based on equipment limits) is kind of pointless when every department out there has different equipment rules.

Some small departments are "run what ya brung" personal issue, some use variable power optics and some use irons. Holsters run the gamut too based on a host of issues (politics, job, gear, etc.).

It would make more sense to recognize Top LEO in each division and let them shoot the division their equipment fits rather than have a division that only fits some department's issue gear.

[theblacknight]

No doubt, I would just run in where I fit, but local matches you could prob get away with shooting whatever your duty gun is. Match directors are usually just happy to have your match fee and see you out there.

[Odin Bravo One]

I'm all for shooting whatever the hell division and gear someone feels like shooting. And certainly one can show up and shoot in any division, or like I would have to do at KSTG.......for no record score........but that isn't what I understood the "intent" of the Mil/LE Division at US Carbine to be. At least not the description posted on their page anyway.

I also find it curious that if the equipment in use by the organization or affiliated local level club is at fault for failure to record a score, then the shooter is penalized by "being allowed" to remove a piece of his equipment, which is legal, and shoot the stage again.

[theblacknight]

I think you should try emailing Mac or pm USCA's FB with your concerns and see if they can tweak the rules for the better. I think with your insight, chances would be good.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

[littlejerry]

I'm firmly in the camp of not shooting 3gun because I'm not into shotguns. And frankly learning another platform, adopting another caliber, and buying more gear for a shotgun just isn't worth it to shoot my rifle in a match setting.

Unfortunately there are very few carbine or 2 gun matches in the Atlanta GA area. There is at least one pistol match every weekend but at best 1 carbine match a month.... And the one club hosting it is starting to add shotgun stages.

If USCA comes to metro Atlanta I'll be thrilled.

[jlw]

I'm firmly in the camp of not shooting 3gun because I'm not into shotguns. And frankly learning another platform, adopting another caliber, and buying more gear for a shotgun just isn't worth it to shoot my rifle in a match setting.

Unfortunately there are very few carbine or 2 gun matches in the Atlanta GA area. There is at least one pistol match every weekend but at best 1 carbine match a month.... And the one club hosting it is starting to add shotgun stages.

If USCA comes to metro Atlanta I'll be thrilled.

Cherokee has a rifle/pistol match the fourth Sunday of each month. The range is in Hall County not too terribly far off of I-985.

I think Creekside was having some carbine matches, but that is well off of my beaten path.

[Little Creek]

I'm firmly in the camp of not shooting 3gun because I'm not into shotguns. And frankly learning another platform, adopting another caliber, and buying more gear for a shotgun just isn't worth it to shoot my rifle in a match setting.

Unfortunately there are very few carbine or 2 gun matches in the Atlanta GA area. There is at least one pistol match every weekend but at best 1 carbine match a month.... And the one club hosting it is starting to add shotgun stages.

If USCA comes to metro Atlanta I'll be thrilled.

I live about 95 miles from downtown Atlanta. I too do not have nor want a dedicated shotgun for 3-gun matches. I like the idea of carbine matches, starting with a cocked and locked carbine and a fully loaded pistol in the holster, transitioning to the pistol when the carbine runs dry, etc.

Please post the particulars on the carbine matches in the Atlanta area.

[rob_s]

The entire time, about 6 years I think, I was running my matches I had one or two vocal guys lobbying for me to add shotgun. I not only didn't entertain the idea, I flat out told them it would never happen with me at the helm but that they were welcome to go start their own thing.

Having been out of the management side of the matches for the past couple of years, they have expanded the use of handgun in them. There was a time when I really thought that the inclusion of the handgun, in order to practice carbine-to-pistol transitions, was not only an important skill but also important for our marketing. Having been back to a match or two in the last few months I can tell you that, at least for me, even the inclusion of handgun is something I'm not interested in. I was hoping I could just go and shoot the carbine portions of the stages but I see videos of stages that are at least 50% pistol and my motivation to drive out there and burn up ammo dwindles.

But, strictly from a marketing aspect, the transition definitely seems to be the holy grail for the masses. Add it to a match and you will gain 20%+ in attendance, take it away and you will lose that same 20%. I would like to see a clear delineation in the new rules from the organization in question that this is a CARBINE match and not a two-gun match and I would like to see very clear guidelines in terms of round-count ratios. Something like no more than 20% of the rounds in a stage, and 10% of the rounds in a match may require the handgun. But not including that isn't likely to keep me from attending.

One other thing that I think DOES need to be clearly delineated in any carbine/pistol matches is that transitions FROM a hot pistol TO a hot carbine wherein the holster is the only legal means should be expressly prohibited. Requiring people to reholster a hot pistol on the clock is a good way to wind up with someone shot in the leg or foot, and that someone could be the RO/SO. When we did transitions from carbine to pistol the rule was that if you transitioned from a loaded carbine and a hot round came out of the gun at "unload and show clear" that the RO/SO did not know to be a dud, you were DQ'd from the match. But I see no viable reason at all to even require a transition that requires someone to holster a hot pistol on the clock. We did several "fight your way to the carbine" stages but the pistol portion always ended with an empty pistol, and grounding the pistol to pick up the "found carbine" was always part of the stage.

[littlejerry]

Cherokee has a rifle/pistol match the fourth Sunday of each month. The range is in Hall County not too terribly far off of I-985.

I think Creekside was having some carbine matches, but that is well off of my beaten path.

That's the "1 a month" I was referring to. I've been and I was not impressed. Stages were very simple, reloads were too conveniently planned, and they have started adding shotguns to the mix.

Creekside is my go-to range but the matches are scheduled randomly and infrequently.

On the flipside there are 3 very good USPSA matches every month plus smaller indoor IPSC leagues and steel matches. I can compete with my pistol on a weekly basis(and not in IDPA) if I'm willing to drive.

I'm with Rob on the carbine focus. I don't mind having to do a transition, but I want the match to he 90% carbine. And I want complex USPSA style stages.

[jlw]

That's the "1 a month" I was referring to. I've been and I was not impressed. Stages were very simple, reloads were too conveniently planned, and they have started adding shotguns to the mix.

Creekside is my go-to range but the matches are scheduled randomly and infrequently.

On the flipside there are 3 very good USPSA matches every month plus smaller indoor IPSC leagues and steel matches. I can compete with my pistol on a weekly basis(and not in IDPA) if I'm willing to drive.

I'm with Rob on the carbine focus. I don't mind having to do a transition, but I want the match to he 90% carbine. And I want complex USPSA style stages.

Skip J in Anderson, SC, has carbine matches monthly as well. That may be more of haul than you want to make. For me, I can get to Skip J easier than I can many of the metro-Atlanta ranges.