US Carbine Association

[rob_s]

I don't know why people always snipe at this kind of thing. Especially those that don't shoot competitions anyway, and are unlikely to start even if they were allowed to write their own rules.

I don't see why having an organization that focuses on the two most popular guns is a bad thing. I hear from shooters all the time that don't participate in 3-gun because they lack the shotgun. Since its not a law or anything at the very least it allows local clubs a jumping off point and they can modify the rules as they see fit. There are several things that are similar to the two-gun match that I started and ran for years. If I was still running that match I don't think I would change to these rules but if I was just starting out I would probably use these rules as a starting point.

[Sparks2112]

But again, we run into people trying to keep things "competitive" by placing rules on equipment......and contradicting themselves in the process.

But my none of my long guns fit into the box they have built, in the category claiming to cater to my professional gear. So why would I shoot that match vs. any other match where I will have to cater my gear to fit into the box they have created........?

The first competitive organization I find that doesn't outright ban my every day carry gear for competition use or place me in the same division as guys using frame mounted optics will be getting my money.

[theblacknight]

This IS a competition. They have to draw the line somewhere. Thats what freestyle division is for.


This is why USCA is going to go big.

Introducing “Narratives”

USCA understands that shooters have regional and even local tastes when it comes to the types of matches they like to participate in. Just on our team we have a mix of tactical shooters and “run-n-gun” shooters. When making the rulebook we decided we absolutely wanted a base set of rules that were enforced strictly across the country but we also wanted the flexibility to let clubs decide what theme their matches would take (tactical, run-n-gun, defensive, etc) so we came up with the concept of a narratives.

Narratives Overview

Narratives allow clubs to dictate the course of fire on their stages. Different clubs throughout the country like to shoot different styles. Some areas are more defensive minded and some are more freestyle centered. With the addition of narratives to USCA clubs can now ensure the style of shooting their shooters like best is shot at their matches.

Narratives Limitations

Narratives cannot, in any way shape or form, override the base rules of USCA. Narratives allow clubs to dictate target engagement order, which hand or shoulder is to be used on a stage or array, what shooting position is to be used, how many shots on target, shot placement on target, etc. The key is narratives cannot force a shooter to violate any core USCA rules.

Narratives are limited as to the frequency of their use. At different level matches (State, Area and National level matches) the % of stages that can be driven by narratives. See the Match Classifications section of the rule book for more details (This is in the soon to be released rulebook!).

[Mike Honcho]

I liked them on Facebook. I'm one of those guys who doesn't shoot 3-gun because I don't have a shotgun. Hopefully I can find a match nearby north MS.

[ToddG]

But again, we run into people trying to keep things "competitive" by placing rules on equipment......and contradicting themselves in the process.

It's an inherent problem whenever you bring scores, prizes, and possible fame into shooting. If you said people can do whatever they want with whatever gear they want, someone (you) would show up with a Mk19, destroy every stage (literally), and... well actually, that would be pretty awesome.

As for the "narrative" thing, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. IDPA tried something similar -- though less formal -- early on and quickly realized that as the sport became more popular, having local rules and big match rules was problematic in the extreme. I've watched people who've traveled hundreds of miles to shoot a match only to be turned away because a gun, holster, ammo, whatever that's "always been ok back home" doesn't meet the rules and isn't eligible for the competition.

Even if they can miraculously keep everyone aware of what the big match rules are going to be, it will likely spiral into butt-hurtedness because people will constantly argue that their personal favorite kit should be legal at the big match. Just look at the recent debate we had here about IDPA's approach to LE duty holsters...

[Odin Bravo One]

It's an inherent problem whenever you bring scores, prizes, and possible fame into shooting.

I completely agree.

But I still question the intent of the the divisions.........why claim to have gear divisions so people can use the actual gear they carry, and not have to have "competition guns", yet have it not be remotely close to true? Certainly I can compete in any number of divisions with my duty gear.........

But I cannot compete in Mil/LE division, with my any of my "as issued" military carbines.

There are plenty of organizations that allow and provide the exact same thing for shooting sports. And the rules are at least consistent from club to club, match to match, and at various levels of competition.

[ToddG]

Sean -- No argument from me. I pay almost no attention to what guys are running in terms of carbines. If a game's LE/mil rules don't reflect LE/mil realities, it's yet another point of contention.

Candidly, it's why I'm against having a set aside LE/mil division...

[theblacknight]

How about you guys just show up and shoot. Local matches are known for letting people just play. How many IDPA clubs actually enforce the "membership after one match" rule? I've been to some idpas with dudes running their Limited/3gun STI's. Fit in somewhere. No one is saying you can't just shoot irons division.

The divisions thing is obviously for the people who want to really apply themselves to the sport and shoot higher level matches.

Dose it really matter the car you drive when all you plan on doing is local auto crosses?

sent from mah gun,using my sights

[Odin Bravo One]

I can certainly set up a gun to compete in any of the divisions...........that is easy enough to do.

But it would be a "competition" gun, specifically defeating the stated purpose of the Mil/LE division........and leaving my duty gear banned from said division. Or I can compete in whatever category my duty gear happens to fall into. But then what is the point of having the Mil/LE division?

I could show up and shoot Irons Only.......but I don't go to work with irons only on my duty gun.

I guess I just don't "get it"........Since no one is chiming in to actually explain it, and all I have to work from is the literature provided by the organization, I'll have to continue to be confused as to the point of the Mil/LE Division.

[theblacknight]

How exactly could they ensure a standard in this le/mil division? Some people's duty rides I'm sure would only fit in a open type division. So if USCA merely required people to show credentials to shoot in this division, you'd have dudes with full raced, lo mass carrier formula one guns burning everyone.