Target controversy

[ford.304]

I get where these targets are coming from, but personally I'd like to see some data on the number of officers who were actually shot or injured because they failed to react quickly enough to a pregnant woman with a gun before I think they're worth the damage to the community relationship. I do agree that training people on realistic targets and with varying realistic shoot/no shoot markers is incredibly important. But if the end result is one fewer officer killed in exchange for five kids with toy guns gunned down because the officer's training was to not hesitate, I don't think that's a win for anybody.

[MikeyC]

Dude even better I will wear a FEMA Hat. That will make us infamous .

I will wear a Glock and have a M4 and boom I will be an internet sensation. Maybe I will carry a box of Krispy Kreams in the other hand.

Kick starter. I smell profit!

I'll throw some investment money in!

[ffhounddog]

Cool I will try and figure this thing out. Need to change my face a little bit them we are golden.

Oh a M40 mask would be the rage.

[JAD]

Absolutely - about a third of the ranting, screeching posts on LET's FB page were "WHY DON'T YOU MAKE TARGETS OF DHS FOR US TO PRACTICE ON??!1? TRAITORS!!1!1!"

DHS does a fine job of making targets of themselves, thank you.

[Chemsoldier]

I get where these targets are coming from, but personally I'd like to see some data on the number of officers who were actually shot or injured because they failed to react quickly enough to a pregnant woman with a gun before I think they're worth the damage to the community relationship. I do agree that training people on realistic targets and with varying realistic shoot/no shoot markers is incredibly important. But if the end result is one fewer officer killed in exchange for five kids with toy guns gunned down because the officer's training was to not hesitate, I don't think that's a win for anybody.

Numbers are pretty hard to gather on these types of incidents. Its even harder to gather hard data on public opinion. For one thing how do we quantify damage done to community relations at this point, when a company has made a product and we have no idea of who is buying them and how many? These targets can doubtlessly be used poorly in training, as can most photo targets...hell most any training evolution can be poorly done. FoF training can be the greatest invention since sliced bread, but I have also been a participant in poorly done FoF and it was a disaster.

Buying a target set of any sort is no substitute for well planned and resourced training. But targets like this can be extreme value added when combined with well done training. They obviously are not designed to be used simply as variety during regular marksmanship training evolutions. However using them in target discrimination drills that do not allow the shooter to see the target set until the last second they can be very valuable. I think these could be a part of an excellent target discrimination program for a department.

So I think we are both in agreement that a well designed program could benefit greatly from these targets combined with other target sets.

[Chuck Haggard]

If you want to see a great example of mob mentality, go on LE Targets FB page and checkout two posts on there relating to these targets. The mob abitrarily made up a story that DHS specifically requested these targets to train on shooting "patriotic resisting citizens"... like literally they're all lined up on the square range all shooting the pregnant chick and the little kid target.

There's a boycott (from people who have never spent money at LET and never would have) and ranting death threats and all kinds of fun stuff.

It's died down to about 10% of what it was a few days ago, but the embers are still hot. Go ahead and try to reason with the mob... see where that gets you.

Exactly the bullshit I was talking about. But then I am probably just a jack-booted thug minion of the coming new world order. The NRA Life membership is just cammo.

[Chuck Haggard]

How about Trooper Vetter failing to shoot a well dressed little old man that he should have burned to the ground?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dbb_1266356082

And what looks like half of the Texas DPS failing to do the same as Vetter bleeds to death?

Just sayin.

[HCM]

But then I am probably just a jack-booted thug minion of the coming new world order. The NRA Life membership is just cammo.

You too ? Shhhhhh !

[LittleLebowski]

How about Trooper Vetter failing to shoot a well dressed little old man that he should have burned to the ground?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dbb_1266356082

And what looks like half of the Texas DPS failing to do the same as Vetter bleeds to death?

Just sayin.

That was pretty rough. Almost as bad as the Dinkheller video. RIP.

[Tamara]

My complaints with the targets are twofold:

1) The name, "No More Hesitation", which then ties into...

2) The perhaps not-too-well-thought-out photo subjects and settings: The calm-looking woman holding the hand of a very non-distressed looking child next to a swing set; is she the suspect or the complainant in the DV 911 call? Smiling little Johnny on the playground. The latter especially is not the kind of target that is going to play well when held up in front of a civil jury should, God forbid, some cap gun wielding tyke get burned down by "ladies and gentleman of the jury, an officer who has been trained, conditioned even, to have, and I quote, 'no more hesitation'."

Tinfoil beanie nonsense from Glenn Beck aside, this is the angle that worries me.