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Thread: Dead Coyote, Live Bad Guy?

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Dead Coyote, Live Bad Guy?

    So I looked around the stash after I got the 870 home and realized that my 12ga stores were understandably low. A few rounds of Winchester 2¾" 000B, a box of that Olin 'military' 00B, some birdshot, and a box of HeviShot "Dead Coyote" T shot.

    What am I supposed to shoot a bad guy with?

    Yeah, yeah, I know: 75gr Hornady TAP.

    But supposing (just for internet discussion purposes) I had to use the shotgun because, I don't know, aliens abducted my carbines, is that Dead Coyote stuff at all useful for indoor home defense use?

    I know birdshot is for birds and buckshot is for goblins and even big birdshot, like .20" size T, is tiny compared to small #1 buck, but in this current ammo environment, beggars cant be choosers sometimes.

    Are large shot waterfowl loads really that impotent at across-the-room ranges when barrier performance isn't really relevant?
    Last edited by Tamara; 03-09-2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Punctuation, matters it can change, the meaning if done wrong.
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

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  2. #2
    You're well-informed -- you know about the FBI penetration standard and the rationale behind it: that in the real world you rarely get the clean full-frontal chest shot that most folks imagine.
    So the coyote load isn't optimal. But if you're going to be at across-the-room distances -- and not out-to-treeline -- it'd probably be OK unless you get unlucky with the angles and intervening body parts.

    Nice series of gel photos here: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...4d48a8a4a9d952

  3. #3
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    Been working on the same question recently.
    Everything I've read keeps coming back to Federal LE 132-1B, now if only I could find some.
    The 00 for a second choice. (LE 132 00)

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=293748
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  4. #4
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    The Win/Olin 00 Buck patterns something awful out of my 12's. All of them. Even when I had my Vang, it couldn't do much better than about 20" at 15 yards. The flight control stuff has performed well, but I can't find it very often these days. And certainly not in the quantities I like.

    I've got some Hydra-Shok slugs I have been pretty happy with over the years. Probably not the greatest performer in Jell-O, but I have had good success with it, and accuracy has been plenty acceptable out to 100 yards. I'll bring some up next time I am in that area.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    (This is, of course, particularly relevant now, as I've had one person ask me my opinion on the topic since they'd bought their first shotgun recently for HD and the locusts have denuded the shelves of pretty much all 12ga buckshot... I guess if I were in their shoes I'd be shopping for the largest shot I could find on the theory that it's not going to make a hypothetical bad guy feel any better.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M
    Even when I had my Vang, it couldn't do much better than about 20" at 15 yards.
    Yikes!
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

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  6. #6
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    But supposing (just for internet discussion purposes) I had to use the shotgun because, I don't know, aliens abducted my carbines, is that Dead Coyote stuff at all useful for indoor home defense use?
    I even go through this game with my Revelation break-action, single shot 410.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  7. #7
    I used to figure number four duck loads would work from my old 16 gauge pump.
    Never had the bad luck to have to answer the question.
    Now use Winchester 00 buck backed with Remington slugs on my newer 12 pump. Got a deal a long time ago and am working my way (slowly) through
    a pile of 00. Local Dunhams had deals on the Rem slugs last November, before the ammo panic really got started.

    Did see a friend put a load of 20 gauge birdshot through the quarter panel of a dumped Ford once.
    We were grouse hunting back in the 1960s and he just got to wondering... He had a short side by side with sixes or seven and a halfs.

    Made a two by two inch hole in the sheet metal with a comet tail of pellets outside the hole.
    Afterward I was more aware of the short range nastiness a shotgun could deliver.

  8. #8
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    I'd load the Dead Coyote at least as the first round if your engagement distances are close, as in less than 10 yards (as are mine).

    In the FWIW department, our state DoC folks use #5 birdshot. The SRT guys tell me it's very lethal against lightly clothed inmates inside a cell and will penetrate the mattresses issued. Several years back, they used mattresses as shields to get close to the guards during a riot as the loads issued then wouldn't penetrate.

    Back to the here and now, the advantage with increasing the shot size is to gain effective range (more penetration). While you and I both know a certain lawman who worked two justified shootings where a shotgun loaded with 71/2s worked, key was distance.* Hard off the muzzle and a load of 8s would work. Fifty yards and the 00 will work fine if the pattern allows.

    Due to my home environment and probable engagement distances, I use a staggered loading system. If the threat is in the rear of my property, I could use a 105mm howitzer. Out the front is a large number of vinyl clad homes that a penknife could perforate. So, my first up load is BB shot, followed by #4 buck.





    * I've killed medium sized critters (less than 70ish pounds) with 8s and 6s as that was what I had on hand for targets of opportunity. Got to be close, but it works.

  9. #9
    I assume the Dead Coyote is the standard Heavy Shot and not some hybrid load (IIRC they offer them)...personally, I wouldn't give it a second thought, assuming it patterns well. The Heavy Shot is much more dense and harder than lead and you will get better penetration and the pellets aren't going to deform when they hit something hard.

  10. #10
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    If it'll kill a coyote it'll kill a BG. Them doggies are TOUGH!
    "PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"

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